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	<title>Comment&#252;s on: Punk Rock HR Question #30: Personality Tests Are For Suckers</title>
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	<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/</link>
	<description>Human Resources is for Suckers.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Breanne</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4738</link>
		<dc:creator>Breanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 02:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4738</guid>
		<description>Laurie, thank you for the compliment!  I have been reading your blog and while I'm aure we'd disagree on some issues related to personality assessments, we certainly do have many opinions in common.  I would be thrilled to be linked to your blog.  I have enjoyed a full night of reading the other linked blogs and have been highly entertained.  

Sadly, I believe that you received a poor feedback session from an MBTI practitioner.  The MBTI assessment report is not the final result.  A true MBTI feedback session allows you to decide what your final preferences are.  The assessment itself can only be as effective as an individual is honest.  In addition, sometimes people are mis-guided by "playing a part" when answering or answering as they believe others want them to.  This is why I always walk through the preferences and have a person talk through what they really believe is their "shoes off self."

Partially because there is no way to control the performance of MBTI practitioners, CPP (the publisher of the MBTI) released the MBTI Complete which includes the MBTI form M assessment and an online e-learning platform for verifying your type.  I highly suggest it!  

I will send you my contact information, and would love to be a resource for anyone wanting to learn more about the MBTI, and I love a good healthy debate!  I'm energized by your critical thinking and questioning and appreciate the opportunity to share my thoughts here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laurie, thank you for the compliment!  I have been reading your blog and while I&#8217;m aure we&#8217;d disagree on some issues related to personality assessments, we certainly do have many opinions in common.  I would be thrilled to be linked to your blog.  I have enjoyed a full night of reading the other linked blogs and have been highly entertained.  </p>
<p>Sadly, I believe that you received a poor feedback session from an MBTI practitioner.  The MBTI assessment report is not the final result.  A true MBTI feedback session allows you to decide what your final preferences are.  The assessment itself can only be as effective as an individual is honest.  In addition, sometimes people are mis-guided by &#8220;playing a part&#8221; when answering or answering as they believe others want them to.  This is why I always walk through the preferences and have a person talk through what they really believe is their &#8220;shoes off self.&#8221;</p>
<p>Partially because there is no way to control the performance of MBTI practitioners, CPP (the publisher of the MBTI) released the MBTI Complete which includes the MBTI form M assessment and an online e-learning platform for verifying your type.  I highly suggest it!  </p>
<p>I will send you my contact information, and would love to be a resource for anyone wanting to learn more about the MBTI, and I love a good healthy debate!  I&#8217;m energized by your critical thinking and questioning and appreciate the opportunity to share my thoughts here!</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4737</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 02:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4737</guid>
		<description>Breanne, this is awesome. 

1. Thanks for coming to my site. I really love this response because it's thoughtful &#38; engaging. 

2. It sounds like you're a believer in the MBTI program, and I'm not going to change your mind. (I won't try! :) )

3. I'm not sure that MBTI has been deemed 'reliable' by a scientific body. Just because it &lt;b&gt;correlates&lt;/b&gt; with brainwaves &#38; chemicals doesn't mean that MBTI is &lt;b&gt;accurate&lt;/b&gt;. That being said, I'm sure there are universal qualities and preferences (archetypes) that are consistent with roles (i.e., CEOs are ENFJs) -- but is that the condition of a 'natural preference' or a condition of the way the test is constructed?

3. &lt;a href="http://horoscopes.aol.com/astrology/career-tips-libra-scorpio-pisces" rel="nofollow"&gt;AOL astrology&lt;/a&gt; tells me that, as a Capricorn, I should go into Banking, manufacturing and building. Those choices sound more appropriate than the &lt;a href="http://www.personalitypage.com/INFJ_car.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;INFJ career choices that are given to me here&lt;/a&gt;. Also, I don't feel like an INFJ but the MBTI certified consultant told me, yes, I am an INFJ. My I is a &lt;b&gt;preference&lt;/b&gt; and by E tendencies are more &lt;b&gt;stylistic&lt;/b&gt;. I'm not sure that rings true with me, either.

4. Self-insight is never a bad thing, but I'm always skeptical of the mechanisms that are sold to companies to solicit the aforementioned insight. Furthermore, I don't believe that your true internal preferences never change. Since when are internal preferences so absolute? Is that a fact?

I'm really glad you came by, Breanne. If you have a blog or contact information where people can reach you for more information on your services (or to continue the discussion), feel free to leave that information in the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Breanne, this is awesome. </p>
<p>1. Thanks for coming to my site. I really love this response because it&#8217;s thoughtful &amp; engaging. </p>
<p>2. It sounds like you&#8217;re a believer in the MBTI program, and I&#8217;m not going to change your mind. (I won&#8217;t try! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>3. I&#8217;m not sure that MBTI has been deemed &#8216;reliable&#8217; by a scientific body. Just because it <b>correlates</b> with brainwaves &amp; chemicals doesn&#8217;t mean that MBTI is <b>accurate</b>. That being said, I&#8217;m sure there are universal qualities and preferences (archetypes) that are consistent with roles (i.e., CEOs are ENFJs) &#8212; but is that the condition of a &#8216;natural preference&#8217; or a condition of the way the test is constructed?</p>
<p>3. <a href="http://horoscopes.aol.com/astrology/career-tips-libra-scorpio-pisces" rel="nofollow">AOL astrology</a> tells me that, as a Capricorn, I should go into Banking, manufacturing and building. Those choices sound more appropriate than the <a href="http://www.personalitypage.com/INFJ_car.html" rel="nofollow">INFJ career choices that are given to me here</a>. Also, I don&#8217;t feel like an INFJ but the MBTI certified consultant told me, yes, I am an INFJ. My I is a <b>preference</b> and by E tendencies are more <b>stylistic</b>. I&#8217;m not sure that rings true with me, either.</p>
<p>4. Self-insight is never a bad thing, but I&#8217;m always skeptical of the mechanisms that are sold to companies to solicit the aforementioned insight. Furthermore, I don&#8217;t believe that your true internal preferences never change. Since when are internal preferences so absolute? Is that a fact?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m really glad you came by, Breanne. If you have a blog or contact information where people can reach you for more information on your services (or to continue the discussion), feel free to leave that information in the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Breanne</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4736</link>
		<dc:creator>Breanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 01:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4736</guid>
		<description>I am sad that you seem to have such a negative view of the MBTI (or valid personality assessments as a whole).  

First off, as a Qualified MBTI practitioner, I can advise that a company should not (by MBTI's ethical practices) force you to participate in the feedback of the MBTI, and the same goes for the FIRO-B.  Additionally, the facilitator should let you know that your results should remain confidential, unless you choose to discuss your results with others.  Your manager should not receive a copy of the results unless you approve it.

Now, onto the topic of assessments in general.  I am FASCINATED when people associate the MBTI with astrology.  Has Astrology ever been validated and deemed reliable by vigorous psychometric tests?  More often than not, people are simply afraid of personality assessments because there are many out there that give the good ones a bad name.  The MBTI is based on solid psychological theory that has been tested over time and validated in thousands of studies.  In addition, brain chemicals have been shown to be connected with various preferences defined by the MBTI.  Does that sound like a horoscope to you?  Is it interesting to you that the vast majority of executives are ESTJ's or ENTJ's?  What does that say?  Does it say something about how those individuals view the world, organize their lives, and make decisions or is it just a random occurance?  Are most CEO's Capricorns?  Doubtful.

Why would self-insight ever be a bad thing?  The MBTI is all about learning about your preferences, and furthering your development as an individual by strengthening the areas that are not your natural preferences.  Again, how is that a bad thing?  Should you instead spend your time on the "Fish Program" and learn that throwing things in the office makes real conflict and issues dissappear? 

The MBTI is not the result...the MBTI is the process by which we all examine ourselves.  The MBTI opens the dialogue about individual differences and poor communucation.  Most importantly, the MBTI gives everyone a common language for discovering differences and working through ways to build common ground and compromise.  

Again, how is that a bad thing?

The FIRO-B addresses the occasional mis-match between our interpersonal needs and the signals we give others.  Do we take on management roles, but despise having control?  Do we wish people would include us more, but never show up to the event?  These mis-matches create conflict on an interpersonal level.  The best way to discuss these conflicts is in action....but how do you start the conversation without understanding ourselves, our preferences, and the preferences of others.

Again, the assessment is not the enemy.  The enemy can be the way the assessments are used.  I am equally against companies who simply administer the MBTI and don't explain why it would be beneficial for everyone.  I am VERY against companies giving a 2 hour debrief session of an MBTI assessment, and then never discussing it again or building individual development plans around them.

Finally, to the poster who mentioned that her MBTI type changes, I am curious whether or not you took the AUTHENTIC MBTI assessment.  There are literally thousands of knock-offs that are neither reliable or valid.  For all I know, high schoolers who are bored and have a computer are making these up for funsies.  Take the official MBTI online with a full debrief session at www.mbticomplete.com.  Your true internal preferences never change.  The same way if you are right-handed you will ALWAYS be right-handed.  Now, if you break your right hand you will adapt and begin using your left hand.  It will be akward, take longer, and your work will be messy....but you will do it.  Over time, your skills will develop using your left hand and you can function using it very well.  However, given a choice, you will automatically use your right hand.

If you really understand what the MBTI is about, you will view it as more than a "pseudo science."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sad that you seem to have such a negative view of the MBTI (or valid personality assessments as a whole).  </p>
<p>First off, as a Qualified MBTI practitioner, I can advise that a company should not (by MBTI&#8217;s ethical practices) force you to participate in the feedback of the MBTI, and the same goes for the FIRO-B.  Additionally, the facilitator should let you know that your results should remain confidential, unless you choose to discuss your results with others.  Your manager should not receive a copy of the results unless you approve it.</p>
<p>Now, onto the topic of assessments in general.  I am FASCINATED when people associate the MBTI with astrology.  Has Astrology ever been validated and deemed reliable by vigorous psychometric tests?  More often than not, people are simply afraid of personality assessments because there are many out there that give the good ones a bad name.  The MBTI is based on solid psychological theory that has been tested over time and validated in thousands of studies.  In addition, brain chemicals have been shown to be connected with various preferences defined by the MBTI.  Does that sound like a horoscope to you?  Is it interesting to you that the vast majority of executives are ESTJ&#8217;s or ENTJ&#8217;s?  What does that say?  Does it say something about how those individuals view the world, organize their lives, and make decisions or is it just a random occurance?  Are most CEO&#8217;s Capricorns?  Doubtful.</p>
<p>Why would self-insight ever be a bad thing?  The MBTI is all about learning about your preferences, and furthering your development as an individual by strengthening the areas that are not your natural preferences.  Again, how is that a bad thing?  Should you instead spend your time on the &#8220;Fish Program&#8221; and learn that throwing things in the office makes real conflict and issues dissappear? </p>
<p>The MBTI is not the result&#8230;the MBTI is the process by which we all examine ourselves.  The MBTI opens the dialogue about individual differences and poor communucation.  Most importantly, the MBTI gives everyone a common language for discovering differences and working through ways to build common ground and compromise.  </p>
<p>Again, how is that a bad thing?</p>
<p>The FIRO-B addresses the occasional mis-match between our interpersonal needs and the signals we give others.  Do we take on management roles, but despise having control?  Do we wish people would include us more, but never show up to the event?  These mis-matches create conflict on an interpersonal level.  The best way to discuss these conflicts is in action&#8230;.but how do you start the conversation without understanding ourselves, our preferences, and the preferences of others.</p>
<p>Again, the assessment is not the enemy.  The enemy can be the way the assessments are used.  I am equally against companies who simply administer the MBTI and don&#8217;t explain why it would be beneficial for everyone.  I am VERY against companies giving a 2 hour debrief session of an MBTI assessment, and then never discussing it again or building individual development plans around them.</p>
<p>Finally, to the poster who mentioned that her MBTI type changes, I am curious whether or not you took the AUTHENTIC MBTI assessment.  There are literally thousands of knock-offs that are neither reliable or valid.  For all I know, high schoolers who are bored and have a computer are making these up for funsies.  Take the official MBTI online with a full debrief session at <a href="http://www.mbticomplete.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.mbticomplete.com</a>.  Your true internal preferences never change.  The same way if you are right-handed you will ALWAYS be right-handed.  Now, if you break your right hand you will adapt and begin using your left hand.  It will be akward, take longer, and your work will be messy&#8230;.but you will do it.  Over time, your skills will develop using your left hand and you can function using it very well.  However, given a choice, you will automatically use your right hand.</p>
<p>If you really understand what the MBTI is about, you will view it as more than a &#8220;pseudo science.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4717</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 04:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4717</guid>
		<description>Dan, I'm not sure I agree. It's one thing if the assessments are valid (are they?), but much of the work done in the OE/OD space is built upon faith-based psychology and hermeneutics of human behavior that are skewed towards a certain agenda (pro-employer, pro-increased-productivity, squashing any sense of individualism, creativity, and personal entrepreneurialism).

Any instrument that leads to greater understanding of oneself is &lt;b&gt;great&lt;/b&gt;, but that's why people have therapists. Work is work. Team building exercises with a Jungian bias don't seem very useful to me, but maybe I'm in denial and I'm transferring my anxiety onto the test instead of dealing with my inability to relate to my inner-mother-figure. 

I just feel that many of these instruments are pseudo-psychological tool kits, created by savvy (&#38; bored) psychologists with awesome marketing skills. 

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, I&#8217;m not sure I agree. It&#8217;s one thing if the assessments are valid (are they?), but much of the work done in the OE/OD space is built upon faith-based psychology and hermeneutics of human behavior that are skewed towards a certain agenda (pro-employer, pro-increased-productivity, squashing any sense of individualism, creativity, and personal entrepreneurialism).</p>
<p>Any instrument that leads to greater understanding of oneself is <b>great</b>, but that&#8217;s why people have therapists. Work is work. Team building exercises with a Jungian bias don&#8217;t seem very useful to me, but maybe I&#8217;m in denial and I&#8217;m transferring my anxiety onto the test instead of dealing with my inability to relate to my inner-mother-figure. </p>
<p>I just feel that many of these instruments are pseudo-psychological tool kits, created by savvy (&amp; bored) psychologists with awesome marketing skills. </p>
<p> <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dan McCarthy</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4716</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan McCarthy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 10:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4716</guid>
		<description>Personality and style assessments do have some useful purposes, but the key is, “if used properly”. There are just too many ifs. And unfortunately, managers continue to amaze me with their creativity for finding new ways to misuse them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personality and style assessments do have some useful purposes, but the key is, “if used properly”. There are just too many ifs. And unfortunately, managers continue to amaze me with their creativity for finding new ways to misuse them.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4668</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 04:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4668</guid>
		<description>Why is the sky blue? Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near, Rachel? There are no answers. People just love asking questions. It's like the guy in IT who asked me the same question every year at the holiday party. "If I fall down and break a leg right now, this is covered by work comp, right?"

The answer is no, it's not a mandatory party, and you're not on company property. But fine, whatevs, we'll play this game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is the sky blue? Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near, Rachel? There are no answers. People just love asking questions. It&#8217;s like the guy in IT who asked me the same question every year at the holiday party. &#8220;If I fall down and break a leg right now, this is covered by work comp, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>The answer is no, it&#8217;s not a mandatory party, and you&#8217;re not on company property. But fine, whatevs, we&#8217;ll play this game.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Robbins</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4663</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 00:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4663</guid>
		<description>I have to ask, why does the reader even care? Of all the things to complain about at work this would be at the very bottom of my list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to ask, why does the reader even care? Of all the things to complain about at work this would be at the very bottom of my list.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4650</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 14:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4650</guid>
		<description>If you're springing for nachos, Wenchie, we might as well get some pizza.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re springing for nachos, Wenchie, we might as well get some pizza.</p>
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		<title>By: hrwench</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4644</link>
		<dc:creator>hrwench</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 06:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4644</guid>
		<description>"...my employer which is a state special district"  Our tax dollars at work.  Yay.

I'm going to develop a new team building exercise that goes like so:  "Look: we are all wonderfully simple and complex at the same time.  Be nice to each other.  Do the right thing.  Now let's all eat some really tastey nachos and then take the rest of the day off."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;my employer which is a state special district&#8221;  Our tax dollars at work.  Yay.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to develop a new team building exercise that goes like so:  &#8220;Look: we are all wonderfully simple and complex at the same time.  Be nice to each other.  Do the right thing.  Now let&#8217;s all eat some really tastey nachos and then take the rest of the day off.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://punkrockhr.com/2008/05/14/punk-rock-30/#comment-4641</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 02:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurieruettimann.wordpress.com/?p=891#comment-4641</guid>
		<description>@RMS  I'm glad you are on the road to recovery. These tests seem to measure the obvious. I wish someone would come up with a test that tells me when, precisely, I will win the Mega Millions. &lt;b&gt;That's&lt;/b&gt; a test I could endorse. PS - I totally agree with focusing on what's right about ourselves. This is exactly why &lt;b&gt;feedback&lt;/b&gt;, especially the kind that's negative and really depressing, totally sucks. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@RMS  I&#8217;m glad you are on the road to recovery. These tests seem to measure the obvious. I wish someone would come up with a test that tells me when, precisely, I will win the Mega Millions. <b>That&#8217;s</b> a test I could endorse. PS - I totally agree with focusing on what&#8217;s right about ourselves. This is exactly why <b>feedback</b>, especially the kind that&#8217;s negative and really depressing, totally sucks. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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