I don’t work for free. I come from that Harlan Ellison school of work. This is America and we are a society of capitalists. There is no value in publicity. It is a false promise.
When a company or a recruiter tries to convince me otherwise, it’s fraud.
I hear stories on a daily basis from people who are asked to work for free.
Basically, an employer or recruiter asks a candidate to solve a real-world problem or create a product in an attempt to impress future employers. Applicants are told that money is one form of currency, yes, but an opportunity to show your portfolio to decision-makers is another form of currency.
And that’s garbage. It’s un-American. It makes me sick.
The only form of currency your mortgage company accepts is cash. Follow that lead.
Alison Green asked if there are contexts where working for free can pay off.
- If you don’t have any money, you don’t have the luxury to waste time on free work.
- If you feel compelled to do something, complete the request and sell it to the company’s competitor.
- Don’t give up your rights. Use your down-time and complete the work and retain ownership of your IP. Reserve the right to keep the product in your portfolio. When you talk to other employers who actually pay money, use this product as a relevant example of what you could do if you were hired as a full-time employee.
I’m a cynical HR professional and I know one thing: if you’re dumb enough to give me a free work product in a desperate attempt to get a job, you are too dumb to work for my company.
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Soooo… I shouldn’t take that internship this fall where they want me to design a training program for new employees? The recruiter sure made that portfolio sound attractive.
Uhm, fuck that shit.
Absolutely love it. I watched it 3 times.
So often you hear “this will be great for your portfolio” or “we will promote you soo much” or “I have friends (wife, son, cousin, 3 uncle removed) that is an exec for insert large corporation here.”
When he says “they wouldn’t work for free for 5 seconds then they bitch about not getting paid enough”.
So many great lines…
thanks for sharing.
Thanks for commenting!
“The only form of currency your mortgage company accepts is cash.” Truer words were never spoken.
I loved everything this guy said. Especially about “amateurs.” I was astonished during my job search at how many companies were trying to fill key positions with unpaid internships. Newspapers and TV stations are filled with interns who don’t get paid – which is why half the words that pop up on the screen are misspelled. Undercut by amateurs, indeed.
OMG, interns. Is this communist china? Do we pay people to work or do we get people to work for free?
It’s such crap.
Labor is a cost of doing business, but it’s not like your electricity bill. Some companies think they should lower labor costs to the lowest possible level — and those companies suck.
Every fifth customer wants a huge discount or free solutions because of all the referral business they will generate. We always say: make something happen and you will be fairly rewarded- if you can’t trust that to happen in that order, you should promote another solution. Also, the concept of “loss-leader” in dealmaking has a long and successful history (and many duds too of course).
Since in modern American you can a) mostly fail upward and b) mostly benefit equally from infamy or fame, its important to make a name for yourself by any means available
My whole fucking blogging strategy is a loss-leader, by the way.
The strategy sucks.
Cross my palm with silver….I love Harlan Ellison. I aspire to his curmudgeonliness.
You are almost there! Go Frank! (Except you have that smile…)
You are singing to my soul today, sista.
I cannot tell you how many people ask me DAILY to give artwork or to create new artwork for some cause. Or they low ball me, wanting me to do artwork for their purposes at a rate that puts me way below the poverty line.
“But it would be great exposure!” Exposure schmexposure. Exposure for doing free work just gets you more free work.
There are times where I do free work, but when I do, I do it for MY purposes, not someone else’s:
1. I sometimes will do artwork to help promote a cause that I believe in and I do it because I want to help, not because i want the exposure.
2. I will do a freebie if I can use the opportunity to do free promotion on my terms, meaning that there is a public to whom I can unabashedly advertise to by doing the freebie.
3. It is a bartering thing with a person who does freebies for me.
People seem to think that artists and writers and such are all shrinking violets who are starved for attention and waiting around desperately for someone to notice them. OK, some are. But the majority of artists are professionals who have spent a fortune on a college degree just like you have. They have families who need to be fed and mortgages that need to be paid just like everyone else. The provide a valuable service/product that is unique and can’t be done by the average person. So why do plumbers and carpet layers and electricians get paid a standard rate that everyone accepts, but the artist gets short shrift?
Because, when it comes down to it, people think they can live without art, but they can’t live without electricity and plumbing.
Hmmmmm….
So if they can live without it, why do they keep asking me to do it for free?
I don’t mind doing favors, but a favor is different than free work.
I think that if they pay you MORE that it gives you greater exposure. Nobody talks about the free schools (Olin Institute) but everyone knows about the University of Chicago and Princeton (bordering the most expensive).
Great video. I’m passing it around!
This is a topic that I always wonder about, so I’m glad to read your thoughts on it.
I think my orientation toward this is heavily colored by the fact that I come from the nonprofit world, where there are a lot of volunteers around. This probably doesn’t apply at all outside that world, but I’ve spent a decent amount of time advising various nonprofits in my circle about management-related stuff for free. Partly I looked at it as pro bono work (the same as if I had spent that time volunteering to build houses for Habitat for Humanity or whatever), partly I did it just because I liked it, and partly I looked at it as an investment in building up my own reputation as a go-to person for management advice in nonprofit circles. It does feel like it’s paying off now that I’ve switched to working full-time as a management consultant specializing in nonprofits (I got at least one of my current clients that way).
But you’re making me realize that this is soooo specific to the nonprofit sector, which I hadn’t fully factored in.
Hm. Interesting. Ya know, I think it’s one thing to do probono work for charities. When I wrote the annual appeal letter for Kalamazoo Animal Rescue, it’s not like someone paid me…
…and I learned a shit-ton about writing and B2C marketing. It was win/win.
I would never be a Human Resources Generalist for free.
Can’t go wrong with Harlan Ellison.
word!
I generally agree but there are always exceptions. In the context that Ellison is talking about, I absolutely agree but there are other situations:
1. You’re getting paid for one job but you want to expand expertise in another, working for free isn’t a bad place to start.
2. The investment of time is so small in comparison to the value of relationships derived from the work.
3. How many years did you write this blog for basically nothing? Sure, you kept the IP but that’s about it. It indirectly or directly led to bigger and better things and that’s what the people who work for free argue will happen with them too.
It’s hard for me to say hard and fast that I won’t work for free in some contexts. I’ve been making money the entire time I’ve blogged but some months, I don’t make any but I still blog for free. If all I did was write, I might do it differently.
God damn you are an optimist.
I will say that I wrote this blog while being paid via a severance package from Pfizer and I only tried to monetize the blog as the money ran out… so really, PFE paid me.
This describes the experience of every wannabe Speilberg film student getting off the bus in downtown Los Angeles— the “work for free, you’ll meet your contacts” myth that permeates the motion picture industry. The reality is– nepotism runs rampant in Beverly Hills so Grip Supervisor’s moron nephew will always get the paid gig, they’re worked to death for a bit of food/craft service (usually Pizza Hut), and if there is an independent film they’re lucky to work on, the hourly equates to well below the poverty line. Burnout is so prevalent in the film industry, as many people are leaving is as many getting off the bus.
My brother is in the film industry. He has a mortgage, a wife, a car, etc. He doesn’t work for free because he can’t afford it. My awesome sister-in-law is a great influence on him, but he makes smart decisions on how/where to spend his time. It pays off.
AMEN.
However: what is a constructive response to big, established companies/govt entities who ask for some written “exercise” as part of the evaluation process? Saying “I don’t do written assignments that represent free work” or “I don’t work before I’m officially hired” probably won’t get far.
So what’s a response that could make the employer offer different evaluation method (assuming its an instance where the firm wasn’t intentionally fishing for free work)?
I’m actually someone who does ask candidates to do exercises as part of the hiring process, if they’re a top candidate who I’m very interested in. They’re not lengthy (never more than an hour) and they’re never something that gets used in any way other than as part of the evaluation process, but I’ve found them to be one of the best ways to get a sense of what a candidate’s performance will be on the job. To me, it’s part of having a rigorous hiring process — I want to see the person in action.
This isn’t necessary with candidates who have decades of experience in certain lines of work, but it’s very helpful with candidates who have, say, three years of experience and thus not an obvious track record of what I’m looking for.
As a candidate, I would say no to these exercises in the following cases:
* The company hasn’t yet had the opportunity to determine you’re among the top candidates and is just asking this from everyone
* You have significant years of experience building a great track record doing the same work they’d be hiring you for; in this case, the track record speaks for itself
* The exercise requires a significant investment of time (more than an hour)
Those are good guidelines.
I once interviewed for a recruiting role and I was asked to read a job description for an IT position and role play.
“What are the questions you’d ask the hiring manager, Laurie?”
I said, “You want me to role play?”
She said, “How am I supposed to know if you have the expertise for this job?”
I said, “Check my references.”
I got hired. (This was an interview with a contractor, by the way.)
The company was Alberto-Culver. Sigh. The good old days when I had no knowledge and lots of balls.
I realize that story might not be helpful but I love telling it.
I have worked for business owners who wanted me to get candidates to work for free and I refused to do it. It just seemed to set a really bad precedent – like if I did it to them someone else could do it to me. (I guess it’s that “do unto others” thing.) Great post!
Right. If you’re willing to work for free, why would they pay you a compelling salary at the top of the salary range?
“The place burned down? Fuck you pay me. Lightning struck? Fuck you, pay me. Slow business? Fuck you, pay me.” – Henry Hill Goodfellas
We could learn something from mobsters…and Laurie of course.
http://www.HRMobsters.com
This is great and it reminds me of this email conversation between an Australian graphic designer and a bad client:
http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p.html
He not only calls the guy out for not paying him earlier but he takes it a step further and is quite the dick to him. At least he stood up for his right to get paid for what he makes.
It’s unfortunate that with the job market still recovering people have taken on the notion that doing work for free and getting your name out there is the best way to get a job… guess they for get that if they got paid for that free work they’d actually be doing a job.
I love this site. Not sure if it’s real (is it?) but it always makes me laugh!
& you’re right… fucked up economy + desperate job seekers = employer freedom.
I am pretty sure the site is real, but the author is a humorist like David Sedaris. This post reminds me of when I was a massage therapist and sometimes had to give a free hour massage as a test to get work. After 10 years or so, I gave them a a choice, 20 mins for free or just pay me for the hour massage. I am now a recruiter.
Thank you so much for this! A friend passed this a long to me to read after I turned down an “opportunity” to be a spokesperson of sorts for a product. The premise is this: Use said product for a month (it was a car so I had to upgrade my insurance at my expense), created content – “work product” and surrender all rights, even though I’d be promoting it through their sites and my own and if they didn’t like it – they still owned it. All of this for 1/4 of what I make from my writing business. When I declined after seeing the contract, I was told bloggers aren’t compensated (paid) and that it was a great opportunity for exposure (ie I was going to be interviewed by a local tv morning show, it would be on radio spots, and the local stations). I wrestled with the decision simply because I liked the car and the brand name… Thank you for reaffirming I did the right thing by walking away!
Well all I can say is that servant leadership is alive and kicking as is volunteerism. I do not believe that its all about the money. I believe America is better then that. I believe that values are better then some of the comments here. Its not all about YOU its what we can do for others!
I was asked to donate some of my time in order to try to keep my job. I gave in for a period. I now see the error of my ways, especially since I found out upper management KNOWS that our workload has increased by over 50% in the past year (I am NOT exaggerating). Their response to our increasing workloads? “Well, it’s just going to get worse, so you’re going to have to make the best of it.” So here’s what happens: we (the drones) are told to handle the exceedingly excessive loads; our supervisors get mad if we don’t do what they tell us to, and then their bosses get mad if we don’t follow what *they* tell us to do (which is completely separate).
I should mention that I had an excellent interview yesterday, and more may be on the way.
In my experience, people do not value or hold in high esteem those who are willing to work for free. If you do not place a value on your efforts, no one else will, either. Sure, you’ll “make contacts.” And next week, none of them will give a tinker’s dam.
There is no value to your work until you are willing to say “no.” Working for free is a good reason to say no.
It cracks me up how many people want stuff for free, but are not willing to work for free when the tables are turned on them. See: history of blogging.
I would have to slightly disagree. There are many bloggers who don’t want to work for free. I run a writing business blogging and creating copy for others. More and more bloggers are asking to be paid for their time. Unfortunately, traditional media isn’t ready to come along with the progress bloggers are ready to paid for their time and energy. I just commented on turning down an opportunity because I wouldn’t be compensated outside of the tools required to complete the job.
Laurie,
I pay people when they work for me and I expect the same when I work for someone else.
Thanks for putting it so bluntly.
Ron
I so have to disagree! As the owner of small company, the people on my staff make or break my company. When I have to sift through 400 resumes to hire one candidate, I need something to give me confidence that you can/will do a good job. And by will do it, that’s just what I mean. I’m super tired of hiring people based on excellent resumes, excellent references, to find they can’t/won’t do the job after 60 days. That’s 60 days lost salary for me, lost time training, health insurance premium paid (we give that on day one, no we don’t make you wait!).
I will ask you for a small project to find out if you’re capable of doing the job. I’ll also pay you for it if it’s good work – whether I hire you or not. Have had too many not pass the background check after everything else seems really peachy keen. I’m not asking you to redevelop my product line or come up with a new idea. I just want to know you can do the job and your portfolio really doesn’t mean too much to me unless your completed project matches the quality of work you’ve submitted in a portfolio.
@Peter: “… servant leadership is alive and kicking as is volunteerism. I do not believe that its all about the money. I believe America is better then that.”
Bollocks.
Do you show up at work for free? Neither do “servant-leaders”. Whether it’s about me/you/us, if you’re hiring in the corporate world, PAY up. There’s a reason volunteerism is distinctly separate from fulltime employment. #Just saying.
Agreed, adding value to an enterprise for some sort of bullsh*t promise of future riches is exploitation. Another watchout word is “independent contractor” when the payment is intangible. But a couple of situations could make sense, like working for a startup in exchange for equity (non-BS future promise of riches), or as a board member for a nonprofit. These have benefits that don’t translate into immediate cash. BTW, any suggestions on a good dog food casserole recipe? I’m f*cking broke.
WORD. And if you’re considered to be in the “mommy blogging” space (which I grant you happens when you put “Mama” in your URL) then you’re also asked to work for coupons and traffic and coffeemakers.
My Fave request so far was a sweet deal where I was offered some enticing KFC coupons to post a widget about a video game involving music coming out.
I mean, I love me some KFC, but uhhmmmawhat???? My mortgage company TOTALLy doesn’t take them, nor am I a fried chicken ho (OK, maybe a little bit. But Chick Fila ONLY.)
That’s not as bad as the multi million dollar companies with budgets for Hearst and Condenast who say to my face “We’re going to get a binch of Mommy Bloggers to do it for free.”
And sadly, then they do. But I’m not one of them.
*NOTE: I’m Not talking about product reviews, which I don’t believe in charging for, but multi faceted social media campaigns.
Well, other than working for free I would be in the house. I graduated in 2008 and have been looking for full-time employment every since. I’ve done everything imaginable: completed internships in college, worked as a buyer, applied to every job board imaginable, networked, gone on informational interviews/job fairs, and even written in to this blog looking for advice.
I am currently a volunteer/intern with a federal agency. I would love to get paid, but sadly I don’t have a choice in the matter. Entry level positions REQUIRE 2-3 years experience. Internships rarely count because there is no salary history. Also most companies would like you to hit the ground running. Time=Money. The time they have to take to train you is time you could be actually doing the job. There is no incentive to hire a recent grad with some experience when you could hire someone with plenty of experience.
What are many of us supposed to do? Interships/volunteering is one of the few ways we can get work experience, pick up skills and apply ourselves daily.
“However: what is a constructive response to big, established companies/govt entities who ask for some written “exercise” as part of the evaluation process? ”
You write “Copyright 2010, my name. All rights reserved.” at the bottom of the exercise. Ask for them to make a copy of it for you (if you can’t do it yourself). File the form with Library of Congress. If they make money from your work, sue their pants off.
There’s a big difference between what Harlan Ellison is talking about and doing an unpaid internship when you’re in college.
If you’re in college, why not get an internship? Heck, get the experience, get the referrals/connections, get the recommendations, kick ass and you can make your internship into a real investment.
If you don’t want to do an unpaid internship, then don’t. Simple as that.
Wow, this brings back memories of my last recruiting gig. Only it was moreso on the part of the client (we were a third-party recruiting agency), and they always wanted to fill their pipeline with my candidates for free “just in case…” someone decides to pull the trigger on hiring. What a waste of time for everyone, especially the candidate. I don’t agree with this one foot in, one foot out recruiting tactic – either start interviewing candidates for a particular position… or DON’T! And I’m sure HR feels the frustration when this is trickled down from corporate and the different department heads who suddenly don’t have a budget for hiring anymore, after they’ve been handed 25 resumes.
I couldn’t agree with you any more!!! They will NEVER value you or your work if you do and they do hire you.