I know that mature, thoughtful, and strategic leaders are comfortable with feedback. They can listen to your opinions, discern truth from bullshit, and move forward.
I am not a mature, thoughtful, or strategic leader. I write a blog on HR and workforce issues. Sorta.
So I’ve been thinking about two pieces of feedback I received during the past week.
- Laurie, you need to give us a reason to care about you. Who are you? What do you believe? Give us more Laurie and fewer posts with open-ended questions. Right now I could care less about your blog. Show your heart. (I promptly wrote this.)
- Your blog is too fluffy. Anyone who thinks seriously about work and the global economy will look elsewhere. They’re not coming to Punk Rock HR. Your blog is cute, it’s fun, but it’s fluff. (I rolled my eyes.)
I’m not looking for feedback on this post, and I’m really looking for feedback on my feedback. Christ, I don’t even want to write the word feedback in another sentence.
I just wonder how I can learn how to stop reacting to feedback before I digest it. I want to hear it, learn from it, and move forward in a positive way.
The sad part? I taught Corporate HR active listening courses. I mediated disputes in the workforce. I taught a course on diverse voices and respectful encounters in the workforce. Honestly, I cynically believed that neither party took that shit seriously. I also believed that feedback was for suckers.
Damnit, I’m so dumb. Youth is wasted on the young, and I lack some serious skills. If anyone wants to talk about how to give/receive feedback, and how to discern good information from bullshit, let’s do it. I’m ready. Comments are open.
{ 61 comments… read them below or add one }
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And FWIW, I think UR doin it rite.
Laurie-I believe “feedback” is best delivered and received as part of an ongoing dialogue. When teaching managers about TRUE performance management, my first and only commandment is that it will not be useful as an event, it must be an ongoing process. Thus, “drive-by” feedback is bullshit, and information gleaned from dialogue is good. As a side note-another measure I like to use is that if the word “strategic” is used, it’s usually bullshit.
You’ve created a space, and a community, for dialogue about human topics (and sometimes cats!). This is one of the most vibrant, interesting communities that I’ve found…OK, enough with the bullshit qualifier..it’s THE MOST VIBRANT AND INTERESTING COMMUNITY I’VE FOUND. You and this community speak of human issues, challenges, and situations. You do a superb job of eliciting and providing “feedback” within the context of the discussion(s) at hand. These discussions make people laugh and cry and snicker…and sometimes click their little mouse to move away to information or discussions that they’re more comfortable with.
If you want to turn this space and this community into one of “mature, thoughtful, strategic” crap, have at it sister. There’s lots of that rubbish out there to compete with. If you want to continue the dilaogue around human topics (and sometimes cats), then keep right on doing what your doing. Remember, it’s your space but you’re still only one member of the community. We decide for ourselves when and why we arrive and or leave, and you get to decide what we might learn while we’re here.
Just .02 worth of opinion from someone who’s damn glad you do what you do, and quite impressed with the way you do it.
Those messages aren’t really constructive feedback though. The trouble with blogging is that anyone can access what you are writing and assume that they are the intended audience, that it should be meaningful and interesting to THEM.
The fact is that this blog is at the correct “fluffiness” level (and right in content and form) for your regular readers. Personally if I find a blog that doesn’t suit my needs/ interests I look for another one, why don’t they just do that? Those pieces of “feedback” are just exercises in self absorbtion that you can ignore.
AH- you are going to stir it up today- Feedback is an art and a science and only relevant if it lands with someone that is open to it. Effective feedback that moves people forward starts with a relationship of trust and respect- that is also something that both people need to give to each other for feedback to work and move people forward. Then and only then will it work in great ways and move people. Analogy: when two microphones are on at the same time and you get that awful screech in the sound system? that does not work…that is why they call it feedback
Let’s take inventory:
-Work from home, with a cat on your lap, a hot cup of coffee next to your computer in your under armor sweats (just in case you decide to get a work out in). Check.
-Travel all over the country to various HR conferences, Social Media drink fests, and other sudo professional functions – getting paid – to speak and meet great HR/Social Media Pros. Check.
-Sold the blog you started a couple years ago, which now makes you independently wealthy, and basically gives you F.U. money. Check.
-Husband has good job, so if it wasn’t really F.U. money, really doesn’t matter anyway. Check.
Yeah, you know what…you’re probably doing it all very wrong. Tell the haters to go to hell. No one wants to know what your cat had for lunch, and where you shop for underwear – keep with the work talk. Sometimes you just have to dance with the one that brought you.
Firstly, I think it’s incredibly difficult to react in a mature way to feedback we don’t like, no matter how mature we are chronologically. BUT, we can put on a good face long enough not to react inappropriately.
I’m a freelance HR project manager and on Tuesday I got a bollocking (that’s English for serious negative feedback, just in case the word doesn’t translate across the Atlantic) from the person I report to. I discussed it with him in a constructive and grown-up way. And it’s taken me more then 24 hours of childish brooding and cat-kicking before I could admit that he was probably right.
Secondly, you have to look at yourself and what you’re trying to achieve here. Is it working? Are your stats good? Are you doing what you set out to do with this site? Is the feedback one-off or part of a consistent pattern? If all this stuff is OK, then don’t worry about it. If you want to change, change.
I’m a pretty recent discoverer of your blog and I love the quirky mix and down-to-earth practicality of it.
Here’s the thing:
It’s a blog.
It’s not a workplace. It’s a blog.
So only take feedback on your blog from people who understand how to make a blog successful (and, specifically, how to make a blog like the one you want to have successful.
The first thing to do with feedback is to evaluate the source. Is this person credible? Is she credible on this particular point? Are there other factors at play?
Even with that…it’s like fashion. I can say, “I like your shoes.” The person next to me can say, “I hate your shoes.” Who’s right about the shoes? You. Because you’re the one wearing them. This stuff highly subjective. Feedback on topics that are highly subjective is of limited value.
Seeing as how you’ve actually sold your blog, you’re pretty much the only successful person I know in this space…so I’m mildly amused that people are advising you. I’m thinking that should be the other way around.
I’m also amused that none of the people here think seriously about work and the global economy. Maybe I’m fuzzier than I thought by the background of some of your readers/commenters, but that wasn’t my understanding.
Oh I have too many questions!!
Is your prompt post to the first point is the type of post they were hoping to get as a result of their input?
Define “Fluff”? Some may categorize your prompt response as fluff. (Not me!) I see these points as being very contradictory. If they came from the same person, I love the fact that you have confused the S%#T out of someone!!!!
Can I reply without using the word feedback? NO!!!!
Keep up the good work!!!!
I disagree. Is that enough feedback for you? You are not going to please everyone, so move on!
Wow- how perfect. Yesterday I had to give feedback to a new employee….and I had some criticisms to make- and oh my Lord how I think I totally messed it up…..
I seriously think I could’ve handled it better- and there were alot of underlying and complicated issues I couldn’t talk about that made it even harder. I walked out of that room feeling like I totally broke her down and like it was the biggest mistake I had made in my 2 years at this job…..
Laurie,
Your blog is right on point for me. I subscribe to heavier HR blogs and half the time I don’t have the attention span or motivation to really read all the posts. Your blog is simplistic and I’m all about keeping life simple. You address issues that I find interesting and this is really the only blog that I feel comfortable posting my opinion. The diversity of your audience really brings the discussion alive which is where I find the most value. Keep up the good work and add those two people to your spam filter.
This is gonna sound a little dorky, but I mostly only care about feedback from the folks who either do what I want to do, can help me do what I want to do, or I think are cool.
Examples:
I play in a band. I play a certain type of music. Said music doesn’t go over well in the hip hop club. Hip Hop Fan says “you suck.” Yeah, well maybe we do, but I’m not sure Hip Hop Fan is qualified to make that judgement, as what we’re doing doesn’t involve two turntables and a microphone. I think M. Ward and Jim James are cool. If either of them happened to be in said hip hop club (why we’d play there is beyond me, but this sort of actually happened) and just gave the half head-nod that the uber-cool do to music instead of dancing when they like something… well, let’s just say it makes the weekend.
That’s a personal experience that doesn’t apply to directly to work (but it does let me brag about Jim James and M. Ward liking my band — YEAH ME!!!!!!), but I think it kinda applies to what you’re asking here. Are the people who produce the kind of blogs you like diggin your stuff? Are you diggin your stuff? Do you want to be a personal experience/bio kind of writer, or do you want to write about workplace issues for/with/about people in the people business? I don’t want to sound like the Oracle from the Matrix, but I think you already know the answer.
I wrote a blog post four years ago on “Why I hate Feedback”. It was based on an original editorial wrote in 2000. And I disagree with you — no one who is slightly evolved finds getting feedback a comfortable situation. When someone is, maybe they have sociopathic tendencies?
Feedback always says more about the giver than the receiver. (Credit and thanks here to Charlie and Eddie Seashore.)
I confess the focus this time around in my post was on using assessments to get meaningful neutral data (hopefully). However, you might find the two minute audio (the original post) relevant. I think it answers your question how to move forward with it. “This is just one more piece of information, nothing more or less. I can do whatever I want to information since it is raw data.”
It can be found at http://www.assessmentstoday.com/2005/09/why_i_hate_feed.html
While it says more about me than you . . . carry on, just as you are. This is a great blog! Good one Bonita.
I’ll echo what both R and Kerry said. First, the comments were not really constructive in the sense it is what THEY want and not necessarily what you want to provide. If a blog is going to be authentic, it really has to be what you wish to write about it. If others don’t find it to their liking, they can click the back button.
Second, Kerry is right in that one has to evaluate the appropriateness of the information source. In “Increasing Productivity Through Performance Appraisal,” Latham and Wexley (1982) identify three criteria: A) the evaluator should be aware of the objectives of the employee’s job, B) the evaluators should frequently have occasion to observe the employee on the job, and C) the evaluators should be capable of determining whether the employee’s performance is satisfactory.
In this case, do those who have criticized understand your objectives in writing your blog? Further, how long have they been reading your blog? Have they gone through the archives? Do they have a total or partial perspective on your perspective?
Well sounds like the corporate guys that bought the blog are giving you feedback…. maybe i am wrong but its my impression since this feedback seems important to you.
So how to take it…
I think the readers here do think globally about work/HR issues and that’s why we are here. I agree about the vibrant community and tell you that your work has inspired me to get moving on my own little project. I think that as with any opinion on creative work, you should reevaluate the message that you want to convey, and take another look at your work, and make sure that YOU can see that message. It’s all about the personal mission statement baby
Feedback on a painting or a book is different than feedback on how well you make a widget so maybe that’s why you’re having trouble digesting this and reacting to it. Maybe you know deep down that the original message is perfectly conveyed in the perfect way that you want it conveyed and maybe you know that the corporate types should stop trying to make you into Personnel Today Magazine… it’s not who you are or what this blog is.
Follow up….. YOU’RE SO MUCH BETTER THAN ANY BORING HR RAG
Just to be clear
For what its worth, some of the points made to you resonate with me. But that is not the issue. I think this is the issue, consider these two statements:
“HRD, your house is never going to sell if you don’t take down that awful wallpaper, those ducks on the wall and paint the door red”
“HRD, your house is priced above the market for this area and unless you are willing to hold out for the market or a specific buyer you should have another look at your asking price”
My response to point 1 is “jog on”. This is your opinion. This is your view. Unless you are some style guru you can insert your advice somewhere dark and painful.
My response to point 2 is “jog on”. But then…..well maybe they have a point? Let me have a look. Am I willing to hold on? What are other houses selling at?
One is factual. One is just opinion.
With opinions you can choose to take them or leave them. With facts….only a fool ignores them.
Maybe you want to be the Queen of Fluff HR and you need to fluff it up even more? (Christ knows there are more than enought earnest HR bloggers out there boring the living shit out of both of their readers).
If you are true to who you are and what you want to be, then as far as I see it, there is no issue. If, however, they hurt….then maybe you want to ask yourself why?
R wrote: “The trouble with blogging is that anyone can access what you are writing and assume that they are the intended audience, that it should be meaningful and interesting to THEM.”
Amen.
What are your criteria for success? I suspect one big one is an active, engaged community, and you have that. Your instincts clearly work.
You cannot please everyone. And if you try, you end up losing all the interesting parts.
True feedback is either when:
A) You knew in the back of your conscious or subconscious that this is true, and the moment the feedback is given, you think, “yeah, I should’ve noticed that.”
B) It hits you so hard in the gut that you can barely breathe for a minute. Cause you’ve got something so horrible in yourself and never noticed it.
Ignore all else.
Blogs are like tv shows, if you don’t like them don’t read them. I don’t agree with you most of the time either, but that is why I read your blog, to keep me open to a different perspective. If all I was looking for was validation of my ideas I’d call my mom.
did you know that Webster’s first two definitions for “Feedback” are: 1: the return to the input of a part of the output of a machine, system, or process (as for producing changes in an electronic circuit that improve performance or in an automatic control device that provides self-corrective action.) 2a:the partial reversion of the effects of a process to its source or to a preceeding stage…
WTF?!?!? sounds pretty damn mechanical to me. in fact, people who suck at giving feedback and are forced to do it only end up being mechanical about it. and unfortunately, most people suck at feedback. as a result, it’s noise that can only be heard, not absorbed. poorly offered feedback can be more damaging than no feedback at all; its not fair that the recipient has to sort through the noise to get to the nugget and then figure out what the hell to do with it. workplaces need more professional fully-dedicated coaches and fewer player/coaches (blogged about this at http://hrfishbowl.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/bench-the-playercoach/). unless you’re a card carrying member of the “Certified Feedback Providers of America”, i say your feedback “is for suckers.”
Dude, just about everyone that has commented is nailing it. Take feedback for what it is. If you feel that the feedback has legitimate value and can help you grow, then digest it and use it. If it has no value or is in your opinion, just plain wrong, then ignore it.
I think part of the value of feedback is in the credibility of those giving it. I was once at a wedding where Jim Thome and his wife were guests. One of the guests took it upon himself to offer some feedback on his swing. Jim was gracious in accepting the feedback, but at the end of the day I don’t think he implemented the recommended changes to this swing. The great lesson I learned from that is no matter how off base the feedback may or may not be, it is often times at least an indication that someone cares about you, but remember at the end of the day the only feedback that really matters or drives change is the feedback your reflection in the mirror gives you each day.
I don’t know who gave you this feedback, Laurie — but whoever they are, they don’t understand your blog or why it appeals to people. They’re criticizing not because you’re doing anything wrong, but because it’s not what *they* think it should be, and can’t separate the two.
I think you’ve made it pretty clear who you are and what you believe. Frankly, I find this feedback baffling, because it’s not like you’re shy about saying what you think. Plus, you do it in a direct, straightforward way. You do an excellent job of connecting your background and life experiences with workplace issues.
As for the person that told you the blog is too “fluffy” — it’s called Punk Rock HR for a reason, and irreverence and the occasional bit of silliness is what makes it unique. It’s your brand, and it’s why people come here. If I want serious discussion of the global economy, I’ll read my copies of The Economist.
Two rules for discerning good feedback from bad:
1. Any negativity in feedback instantly disqualifies said feedback and its purveyor.
2. Framed language or politically correct pandering also disqualifies feedback.
I used to think that corporate leaders had earned their position through hard work and progressive vision…some have…but others got there by politely back pedaling.
Rule #3 – anyone who disparages Punk Rock HR is afraid of the truth.
- Dave
I was once was told that the best way to find new movies and music was to find a critic that you seemed to agree with and then stick with their recommendations.
So yes, as many others have said, evaluate the source. You should also evaluate the sources motivation. Blog critics? No reason to respond to anyone you don’t know or trust their judgment.
L&G,
Laurie asked for suggestions, not more opinions. Here’s a time-tested method for giving insightful feedback.
1. Write out what you want to say.
2. Don’t post it/send it/proclaim it for 24-72 hours.
3. Re-read what you wrote
The biases, the BS, and the emotions tend to fall out of it, and you tease out the core of the issue at hand.
4. Rewrite it with your clearer vision, and give the feedback.’
It worked for Lincoln, and it works for me.
Whoa Dude. First, it was awesome to connect at the Tweetajob launch.
Now, its funny that you wrote about this cuz I just had a conversation with some thought leaders within HR about “Humanization”. And I think there correlations. To me, your blog encapsulates the human side to HR/Recruiting and the work/life dynamic in general. Let’s face it, work is grindy as hell for those of us lucky enough to have a job, and to read a blog that touches on real topics, with real emotion it’s not only inspiring but medicating at times (at least it is for me). Laurie you do an outstanding job at that, and my sense is the majority of your followers feel the same way.
From my experience with feedback, if it’s processed correctly it can be a very strong tool. It looks like there are some considerations from the “feedback giver” about ways to “evolve” your blog. If you truly feel that this can add value to your blog, then by all means go for it. If not, don’t. But the most important thing to do is make sure you let your intuition guide you to your decision. And the last thing you wanna do is start second guessing yourself….at least you’re out there doing shit. If you bring the same perspective, energy, and spunk to address “more serious” HR topics there’s no doubt you will do that well (for the record, I love your topics). I mean c’mon….there’s a reason you have the following you do.
Keep your head up!
Laurie,
OK, so is this really about dealing with feedback, or dealing with NEGATIVE feedback? Cause it seems to me that you get feedback here all the time (not to mention at the various events you attend – though I can only speak to that anecdotally, since I have never been AT any of those events, nor am I a member of the “club”).
Ultimately, I think you have to decide if you’re interested in getting feedback, and if you are planning to do anything about it. I do a daily newsletter that goes out to about 50,000 readers. In the course of a month, I will hear from tens, maybe hundreds (depending on what’s going on), who will tell me that they enjoy the newsletter, get timely and readable information from it, appreciate what we help them do (it’s a wonderful thing that so many people – many of them in HR – still take the time to say “thank you”). And then, during that same period I will get 2, maybe 3, who think the newsletter is too long, too “cute”, or perhaps just not in a color/font combination that works for them. I always appreciate the former, but I obsess (a bit) about the latter. That’s what I think human beings (at least the ones without overblown narcistic egos) do.
Frankly, in view of the tone frequently adopted in your posts, I’m struck (and impressed) that you’d even take the time to pause and wonder aloud about the whole process of getting/dealing with feedback (the cynic in me says you MIGHT be doing it just so that your regular readers would do what most here have done – in essence tell you that those who criticize what you do are nuts…but, no – I’m going to hold to the first impression).
As others have noted, you have to figure out whether the feedback you get is from people you think “matter”, or – perhaps in cases like this where you don’t know who the people are – you have to figure out whether it resonates in that deep recess of your brain where we all keep our voices of reason/conscience. And then, as I said before, you have to decide if you’re willing to do anything about it. In this case I would say if your blogging “works” for you, and if you’re getting out of it what you want to get out of it (spiritually, financially, whatever), then you do what you want to do. Anybody who doesn’t care for it – well, that’s one of the great things about this country – they don’t have to. Just change the “channel.”
Nevin
p.s. in my experience “mature, thoughtful, and strategic leaders” are “comfortable” with feedback because they are in a position that allows them to take it or leave it, as it suits them. Contrast that with the kind of feedback you get from a manager that you “have” to accept/deal with in order to stay gainfully employed (or get a pay increase, promotion, etc.).
I think you’re doing a great job, Laurie. It’s hard to ignore the haters, but just as previous posters mentioned… they will always be there to criticize.
Side note: I’m dealing with “feedback” and criticism myself, but it a completely different way… I’m trying to plan my wedding. I’m quickly discovering that it doesn’t matter what you do, you will always rub someone the wrong way. Even if you have the absolute BEST of intentions, there will always be someone there to criticize. Only thing you can do is be yourself, make yourself happy, and shake them haters off.
Not sure what the hater meant by “fluff”? What I like so much about your posts is the open nature of them. Each post is like a huge philosophical quandary that somehow relates to HR/office politics. Readers can then run with it in countless directions, usually fostering more great discussion.
Also, I love it when you derail and write something completely unrelated to work. (Fuck it Fridays!) I like how you’re able to tactfully combine blogging with some personal journal-ing. Mostly HR, with little tidbits of Laurie and her cats. You do well to relate to your readers, and people appreciate that.
If “fluffy” = current, active, frank, poignant, engaging (I could go on and on here), then let it be fluffy! I enjoy the dialogue that you open up on various topics. I reply to some, merely listen to others, but I always pay attention. If you changed your blog to something more stuffy or pretentious, I’m not sure I would find it interesting enough to read every day. You can hear the feedback, consider it, and take what’s important without letting it change who you are or what you do so well.
I once co-taught a productivity improvement course for banking managers with my supervisor. One of the key points he always established was the need for the managers to provide timely, relevant feedback to their employees. In summarizing the week’s activities at the course’s end, he asked one group of attendees, “What’s the most important thing you can do for your employees?” When he received only silence and dumb looks, he prompted, “It starts with an ‘F’ and ends with a ‘K’ . . . . It brought down the house. Keep your sense of humor concerning feedback.
Laurie – I have been reading your blog for quite some time and I can’t even tell you the number of times I have forwarded your posts onto friends and collegues. I find your posts refreshing and thought provoking as well as the comments your receive from other HR Professionals. Don’t let some cranky writer-wannabe stop you from continuing to do what you do so well. I know that you have inspired me on many occasions and in this field that hasn’t happened often. Thanks for what you do.
Laurie, Please remember that those who can do and those who can’t are critics. That’s #1.
I read your blog everyday. I’ve already state several times that I’m older than original sin but you have something to give me each day that keeps me doing this insane crap called HR. Somedays it’s a new insight, somedays a laugh, somedays, not so much. Does this mean I should tell you how to write your blog–Hell NO! If I had a blog of my own and some street cred, it might be different, but I just an ordinary reader who is grateful that you call out the idiots in management and say it as it is or should be.
Keep on keeping on, Girl. Kiss your cats and husband. You choose the order. I’ll keep coming back.
If it’s honest feedback you’re looking for, then I can only give it from my perspective.
1. You have alot of followers because you’re very good at follow up.
2. You have an edge that most people “wish” they had– but are too chicken-shit to put out there for fear of judgement from some God or mother or school teacher.
3. Your opinions on HR are dead-on to the masses who have no voice– and a great outlet for everyone to get shit off thier chest.
3. The only criticism I have is: alot of comments can be redundant– I wish more people had a Johnny Rotten attitude versus a Bob Dylan — there’s more entertainment value.
What are you trying to accomplish with your blog? People will have all sorts of reactions/feedback to it, which is natural and uncontrollable. If you have a goal for your blog, the feedback will be more useful, in my opinion.
Feedback is a very powerful tool that is rarely understood!
First and foremost, the person who is receiving feedback needs to be willing and ready to accept it. Often in the OD world, when they teach feedback, we practice the “silly” game of asking, “Can I give you some feedback?” and then it is up to the receiver to decide if they are ready and willing at the time to handle it.
Second, it needs to be delivered in such as way where it is simply how you and/or your behaviors (or in Laurie’s case, blog) affect the feedback giver. Feedback should NEVER, I repeat NEVER, be criticism. It is simply an observation about how you (as the giver) is being affected. Plus it needs to be useful information.
Third, the overall goal is to ensure that the relationship between the feedback giver and receiver stays intact and future interactions are possible.
For a great reference, look at Edie and Charlie Seashore and Gerald Weinberg.
For the record, I love your blog Laurie and frankly has helped me get re-inspired to present HR the way I know how it should be done.
Laurie – Author Carolyn See got negative feedback from editors – and kept going. She says, “It’s not personal. It’s not death. It’s just a death experience. And the way to defuse rejection is to turn it into a process: cosmic badminton.” She advocates returning a thank-you note.
But blogs have hundreds, often thousands of ‘editors.’ It’s your choice to accept or reject it. Clearly, lots of us think the boo birds aren’t delivering value. I think your site – and your writing – is excellent. Walk on…
@Tim – love it!
@Kerry – precisely. Get over it haters – this is a blog.
@Teresahrgirl – you really get it…smart woman.
@HRpufnstuf – yup!
Laurie,
1. The sheer number of comments about this post should help you get a perspective on where exactly to file those two bits of feedback.
2. I really cannot stand watching or listening to Rush Limbaugh so you know what? I don’t. Pretty simple really. It’s a free country and there are plenty of blogs to choose from.
Laurie, I’m relatively new to your blog and so far my feedback is: it’s awesome! I was really excited to read your post on feedback. It’s a topic near and dear, based both on my experience in environments that do feedback poorly and my experience at Rypple where we’re creating software that helps people do feedback right!
The keys, as you point out, are:
- discerning good feedback from the BS
- digesting feedback and moving forward in a positive way
Easier said than done in both cases, but an approach I’ve found useful is to ask myself “what action can I take based on this feedback?” If there’s no clear path forward based on the feedback, it’s likely not as useful.
@Tess said I’m a pretty recent discoverer of your blog and I love the quirky mix and down-to-earth practicality of it. – DITTO!
Laurie,
The fact that you posted this here to get your readers’ feedback tells me who you REALLY listen to.
Yours is the only HR blog I visit each day and comment on. I do so because you write shit that intrigues me and gets me thinking. Your other readers respond and get me thinking about other things. If that’s fluff, then fluff is the new BACON.
Now go give Scrubs a hug. You could both use it about now.
Laurie, I love your blog. It is about the only one I read semi-religiously. For th most part, I scan others to see if there is anything in them that interests me.
Two things draw me here day after day:
1. Your vibrant and engaged community.
2. You.
My love for Punk Rock HR aside, I think I understand at least part of what your critic was trying to say. Your blogs tend to fall in one of two categories. The most common type of post I have seen you offer this past year have essentially been prompts for other people to answer. Your second type of post feature you providing analysis and opinion about something important to the world of work.
It is this latter type of post I personally find most interesting. they allow me to hear your voice, your passion and your wit. I wold love to hear more about what you have to say about the world of work, the world of cats and pretty much anything else you want to be snarky about. I love your commenters too, but I am usually more drawn to your analysis.
Whatever direction you take, don’t ever forget that you have succeeded in doing something that so many others have tried and failed. How many organizations wold KILL to have a community like the one you have crafted?
There is a diferrence between feedback and criticism (and mindless praise too). As a writer and artist I have had to develop a fine sense for both.
Feedback is intended to help the person grow or improve in some way.
Criticism is one person exercising their ego and imposing their opinion on another person in order to feel powerful.
One of these is positive and helpful – the other is generally not.
These two communications strike me as criticism – which is really easy to throw out through the relative anonimity of the Internet. You can usually tell when it is feedback because it comes from someone you know who cares about you in some way – professionally, personnally, etc.
PS isn’t it so great that you have so many passionate advocates among the community you have created!
@Ken So generous. YES!
@Frank We decide for ourselves when and why we arrive and or leave, and you get to decide what we might learn while we’re here. This is so true on my blog and in life!
@R Those pieces of “feedback” are just exercises in self absorption that you can ignore. Thank you. I don’t just want to dismiss feedback out of hand. But thanks.
@Debbie Effective feedback that moves people forward starts with a relationship of trust and respect- that is also something that both people need to give to each other for feedback to work and move people forward. Wow, ur doin it right on my blog. That’s so clear to me!
@Tim Yeah, you know what…you’re probably doing it all very wrong. You just made me pee my pants with laughter. Thank you. Awesome.
@Tess Love the term bollocking. I know what you mean. Thank you for the practicality of the comment!
@Kerry Maybe I’m fuzzier than I thought by the background of some of your readers/commenters, but that wasn’t my understanding. I’m with you. My readers skews smart and awesome. That’s a fact based on Google Analytics.
@Mark Define “Fluff”? Some may categorize your prompt response as fluff. (Not me!) I see these points as being very contradictory. If they came from the same person, I love the fact that you have confused the S%#T out of someone!!!! I need to be f–k up to answer this question. Very deep and existential. Wish it were that complicated!
@Bonita I only want to please you. As it should be.
@Karen Oh no! We need to make sure you don’t make that mistake again. If you want to write a guest post about it and ask for feedback, email me at yo@punkrockhr.com and I’ll post it.
@Allison Thank you. No one is going to spam. I’m too lazy!
@Scott I don’t want to sound like the Oracle from the Matrix, but I think you already know the answer. You do sound like the Oracle, or maybe Morpheus at his better moments. Also, you’re right.
@Roberta Thank you so much. I’ll read the link right now.
@akaBruno This is so awesome. the evaluators should be capable of determining whether the employee’s performance is satisfactory. I wonder if we ever achieve that roll in art?!
@teresa No way, no corporate guys who bought this blog — and no one gives me feedback. In fact, they like it when I’m trashy. Lots of swearz and scandal. That’s how they roll. But thank you on the feedback comment. Ha! I hadn’t even thought about that.
@TheHRD Jog On? I’ve never heard that. I’m totally using it. Often. To lots of people.
@Ask What are your criteria for success? I suspect one big one is an active, engaged community, and you have that. Your instincts clearly work. Wow, thanks. Maybe I should write down my criteria. I’ve never done that.
@Yossi I love that. Great guiding words. Thank you!
@Bruce That is the first shout out for a Mom on my blog that we’ve had in November. Yeah! Go moms. She serves a purpose.
@Charlie Whoa, I want a calling card from that association.
@Puf Do you think people give Tiger tips on his swing? Or Martha Stewart some advice on being a crafty woman? That’s so amazing. Thanks for sharing that awesome story.
@Tim Thank you. If I want serious discussion of the global economy, I’ll read my copies of The Economist. Ya know, I’m with you, but I was kind of bruised by the fluff feedback. Like, what, hey, don’t you think I can hang with the smart people crowd? You don’t think I’m credible? Bah!
@David Rule #3 – anyone who disparages Punk Rock HR is afraid of the truth. OMG, thank you, but you’re going to make me more self-involved. Don’t push me further into the pool of narcissism. xoxo
@nelking I know, I know. Blog critics. Who knew there would be blog critics when I started writing? Weird.
@Mark Cook Thanks, dude. I’ll take *any* type of comment.
1. Write out what you want to say.
2. Don’t post it/send it/proclaim it for 24-72 hours.
3. Re-read what you wrote This is great for me. Thank you.
@RickRO First of all, you are awesome. It was my honor to drink tweetinis with you. Also, breaking news: your comment is brilliant and I appreciate it. Lots to think about.
@nevinesq OK, so is this really about dealing with feedback, or dealing with NEGATIVE feedback? Oooh. I don’t know. I just want everyone to like me (but I deny it). Good catch. Your whole comment is inspired. I like this. in my experience “mature, thoughtful, and strategic leaders” are “comfortable” with feedback because they are in a position that allows them to take it or leave it, as it suits them.
@Jess Thank you & congrats on your engagement. I went to vegas and paid for it myself so we didn’t have to accept feedback.
@Bev OMG, F–K. Love it.
@Jeannie Cranky. Darn it, I love that word!
@ali Thank you. Tonight I’ll kiss my cats, first. Glad you won’t judge me.
@MattyMat I love that you read through the comments of other readers. That’s very nice, actually. Give me an indication that this *is* a community.
@Steve What are you trying to accomplish with your blog? Well that’s a therapy session!
@Ben Thank you & thanks for the referrals. Will put them on the list. I was once asked, “How do you want feedback?” I said, “I don’t.” Snap. That was kinda rude, in retrospect. Sorry
@Marsha She advocates returning a thank-you note. That one little tactical thing makes so much sense to me. Thank you. Feedback becomes less hostile if you’re automatically going to thank someone for it .
@Laura It is a free country. Perfect.
@JesseG what action can I take based on this feedback? Whoa that is an awesome question. Thanks.
@Jennifer Thanks!
@BZ Fluff is the new bacon? Whoo, that sounds like a good t-shirt. Thank you. Who gives you feedback on your art? Do you ask for it?
@George Wow, thank you. We have to take that praise and turn it towards you. You’re ready for something big.
@Low I haven’t even thought of differentiating criticism and feedback. When it hurts my feelings, it’s all bad.
Sometimes hearing someone else voice it, just helps.. thanks for writing this. it doesn’t matter what you hear, it still really does jab… and sometimes pretty hard..
Seriously, they really ARE haters.. and when I saw the post, all i could honestly think was of the story the fox and the sour grapes.. You gals rock, really do, and seriously, look at the sources.. and the fact that people would seriously have no other time on their hand, or be intelligent enough to be able to write something creative without it being at the expense of others really does tell you the type of people they are..
So keep up the good work, continue to be true to yourself.. and Keep on Rockin’ Gal..
Karen Mattonen
Everyone covered it pretty well here. When you put yourself out there, when you clamor to find your voice in an extremely noisy world (and the audience that comes along with it in time), when you position yourself an subject matter expert and thought leader in any space regardless of your humorous and irreverent or serious and straightforward, when you blog in op-ed as opposed to the credible yet dying breed of supposedly objective journalism, you open yourself up for criticism, feedback, love notes, etc. That’s why we have comment boxes on the bottom of our blogs.
If the “feedback” is insightful, highlighting a point you missed or giving you objective counter-points that make you go “hmmm”, then it good contextual constructive commentary. If it’s just to tell you your wrong, you’re an idiot, you don’t know anything about HR or life, blah, blah, blah, then it’s just crap. In fact, the converse of hater comments – you so rock – can sometimes be just as much crap. True with blogging. True with employee performance reviews.
Don’t get me wrong. I liked to be liked. It’s always been my nature. It took me a long time not to take things personally. I don’t think you ever really get past it. But hold on to the constructive commentary that makes you see your own content differently, evolving your thought processes and I trust makes us a little more intuitive.
Keep evolving voice and be true to heart. Keep the fail; keep the faith. You are
It was an honor to meet you this week Mrs. Ruettimann. Keep fighting the good fight.
@Laurie Who gives you feedback on your art? Do you ask for it?
I get a lot of feedback. Rarely is it solicited.
Creating artwork is like writing a blog in one sense, because both take skill, talent and unique insight to create. Both inspire, touch, and move us in their best form. Both create dialog with others when they are successful. Such dialog could be considered feedback, but I don’t call it that. I call it interaction.
Feedback tends to be more one-sided and judgmental. The giver presupposes that he/she has some angle of superiority with you, and that his/her feedback comes from a place of seeing something that you don’t. There may be some folks that I would allow to have that angle of superiority, but not many. I do have some artist friends with whom I discuss ideas and techniques, and in the exchange, we give suggestions and brain storm new ideas. But rarely is there criticism.
When you throw your studio doors open for folks to come in and see your work, post images on Twitter, Facebook and a blog and half a dozen other websites, you are going to get criticism. It doesn’t always feel good, but I accept it as part of the process. Most of the feedback that I get is exuberantly positive (much like what you get here). Those folks love what I do, and I feel blessed to have them supporting me.
The negative criticism that I get tends to come from other artists who either: 1) are not succeeding at marketing their artwork, 2) have that “I’m-a-bad-ass-and-all-artwork-that-isn’t-about-goth-gore-or-seedy-sex-is-worthless” attitude, or 3) are mad because I have partnered with the “Establishment” (art councils and business leaders)to accomplish some of my artistic ventures. Talk about immature. Most of their criticism is in the line of complaining that my artwork is marketable. A “real” artist should never make artwork to sell, in their book. Then they turn around and complain that no one appreciates their vision or buys their artwork. I want to say grow up (as you did in the first blog post that I responded to here in this space
).
I believe that I have a fair amount of artistic skill and ability. But beyond that,there is something brash and bold about my artwork that people like and admire. They like my spirit and how I smirk at the status quo to do my own thing. In so doing, though, I still come up with images that are fun, upbeat and down to earth. It is a mix of paradox, gentle sarcasm and bold color that tends to draw people to my work. And critters. Critter people who share my love of critters love my work.
I am not going to say that the negative criticism doesn’t bother me. I do give it some thought to clarify my own artistic ideals, but I don’t let it bring me down. If anything, it fires me up to show my critics how irrelevant they are to me.
I am sure that there are academics and elitist gallery folk who would tear my work to shreds. In the past, I wanted to appeal to them. I have found, though, that trying to appeal to critics leads to me doing work that I find boring. It was the same in the workplace with various jobs that I have had. When I tried to do what others wanted instead of following my own vision, I did boring, mediocre work, that wasn’t acceptable to me.
Your blog is very similar to my artwork in some ways. It is brash and bold and challenges the status quo. Even so, it is fun, upbeat and down to earth. You know your stuff about HR and it comes through loud and clear. But you make it relevant to more than just the HR snobs, and you give inspiration and support to each and every reader.
Anyone who says Laurie, you need to give us a reason to care about you. Who are you? What do you believe? has never read your blog. Are they idiots? I hope your critics see all this feedback and realize that you have given a lot of people reasons to care about you.
Anyone who says Give us more Laurie and fewer posts with open-ended questions. has no clue what blogging is all about. All the best blogging sites with info on how to write good blogs say that you should have lots of open-ended questions to encourage your following to engage.
And the fluff comment? Again, they must not read your blog. I have not seen a blog with as hard hitting of stuff with such intelligence, candor and fearlessness as I see here.
To summarize, I look at it this way.
Define what you want to do, who you want to appeal to and what sort of outcomes you are seeking. If your critics are engaged in helping support you towards those outcomes, and they “get” what you are trying to do, listen with some openness, but don’t let them slay you. If they are trying to get you to go in a different direction, though, and it isn’t a direction you want to go, give them the middle finger and show them how irrelevant they are to you.
Then go find someone who wants to monetize your awsomeness.
Listen Laurie: If I wanted to read the latest business zeitgeist, be enthralled by metrics and statistics, I’d read the Harvard Business Review. That’s not why people come here. People come here to be with you. You, and your cats, and your cute hair do-and your funny musings about HR. While I am a new follower, I think you are a nice person, with a great message. Can’t wait to meet you at HRevolution.
When it comes to feedback: First I wince, then I promptly remove the splinters, and then I decide if there was a lesson in what I heard. If it gnaws at me, then the answer is maybe. If the answer is maybe, I evaluate if it is something I can, or want to change. If it is something I can change-and have the motivation to do so-change happens. We appreciate you.
Your twitterpal,
HRMargo
http://hrmargo.wordpress.com
When someone makes a sweeping generalisation based on their opinion and calls it feedback ask them for a specific example and why it made them feel the way it did. “Exactly what do think is fluffy and why do you object to that?” If they can answer, fine, you get something constructive. If they can’t, ignore it.
And if you just don’t happen to like what they say because they misunderstand, do it the punk rock way and tell them to get f@cked.
Laurie – You’re dead on with this. People don’t want feedback unfortunately. They want to hear what makes them feel good. So, if you have great feedback – all is well. If you need to be constructive or fix a problem – all is evil. It’s amazing how there’s no middle ground.
I enjoy that you press the edges and make me think with your blog. I’d rather be connected to folks to make us reflect what we do in HR to be better than someone who wants to give us their “formula”.
Formulas don’t work and I wish we’d quit looking for silver bullet solutions to everything.
Keep blogging !! I know many folks who I’ve told to get connected to someone who thinks and doesn’t just preach.
I think those two criticisms contradict each other – how can they both be valid? Obviously different people have different perceptions, as you’d expect them to, and may have different expectations. But those two things seem to be so contradictory. You’re not sharing enough! Oh wait, you’re sharing too much. WTF?
I think the so-called “fluff” – what seems at first glance to be irrelevant – is a bridge to more serious subject matter. Your blog covers such a wide range of topics, and let’s be frank, talking about COBRA provisions can be boring as feck-all. So sometimes you have to put cherry flavoring in the medicine before it goes down (and yes, I speak from experience).
You know I’m a fan of your work, but let me say it again – I read your blog:
- Because it’s balanced (hard data and fun facts), because I learn something AND because it makes me laugh.
- Because you never channel the official-company-statement, Catbert-the-evil-HR-cat, tow-the-company-line vibe.
- Because when necessary, you f*ck sh*t up.
- And for those of us not in recruiting and HR, you show us what’s behind the curtain in Oz.
Sounds like the definition of “value added” to me.
First of all, I love your blog and I am not a blog person. I think you get to the heart of matters. No one should judge a blog anyway…it’s your thoughts and opinions. Others can share their thoughts and opinions but they don’t have to criticize and there is a difference between feedback (I hate that term too) and criticism. A few months back my boss and I were discussing the “feedback” issue in terms of trying to get employees to use feedback more with each other. I suggested we stop using the term “feedback” because I think it’s sort of general and I also think it scares some people. People don’t want to do something they think is scary. You know what I think? People that say you write fluff can go read something elsewhere.
I respect that you care about the feedback but agree with all who have said we come to your blog for what the blog is. Simply put, I read it because it makes me think. It gives me a new perspective at times and validation at other times. That is aside from the cat connection – I have 4 felines in my life. Happy blogging!
Laurie:
Isn’t this whole social media thing about engagement? So else gets 53 comments on a post?
Can’t please everyone. You seem to be pleasing plenty. You keep me coming back with your wide variety of postings and humor.
Thanks for what you do. When I “grow up”, I want to be Laurie Ruettimann. You rock, Baby!
My test for feedback (on anything) is as follows: Is it given in a spirit of helpfulness or in a spirit of “I’M telling YOU what YOUR problem is?” If it is the latter I disregard it. After all, if it’s given like that, the feedback isn’t about me, it’s about the person giving it. If it’s the former, the person is going out on a limb to show they care about me as a human being and the actions I engage in that affect other human beings. That’s meaningful.
Ways I find out if something is given in a spirit of helpfulness (if I’m initially not sure) include asking:
1. Can you tell me more about that (suggestion)? or Can you tell me more about what you mean by (insert phrasing I’m not sure about)?
2. Paraphrase what the person says back to them and wait for them to correct me (or not).
Ways I react when I think the feedback is stupid:
1. “Thanks for the feedback”
2. “Calm down, dude”
3. “Um, ok”
4. Other, snarky comment (Yes, I’m defensive. Sue me)
Ways I react when I think the feedback is good:
1. “You know what? You’re right”
2. “I’m so glad you told me”
3. “Oh, man. I had no idea….”
PS I read your blog because
1. I adore you
2. It’s hilarious
3. It makes me think
4. It doesn’t contain bull crap
5. It’s about being a whole person, with a full life (warts and all) at work. It’s about how work isn’t the only thing in people’s lives.
6. It’s the opposite of naive
7. It’s NOT fluffy. It’s real.
@Jenn You are killing me. Love the lists on feedback. That’s a chapter in a book, yo. Your book. On how to kick ass and take names in the real world.
@Sue Thanks, dahhhling. You are so awesome.
@HRJessie You have four cats? That is so neat. I didn’t know there were fellow crazy HR cat lovers like me. Maybe we need a blog for that??
@BZ I am not going to say that the negative criticism doesn’t bother me. I do give it some thought to clarify my own artistic ideals, but I don’t let it bring me down. If anything, it fires me up to show my critics how irrelevant they are to me. Snap. So perfect. This is why I adore you and admire you. When someone hands me a bag of money, there will be an investment in Brewskie Inc.
@HRHooligan I suggested we stop using the term “feedback” because I think it’s sort of general and I also think it scares some people. People don’t want to do something they think is scary. That is so true. Like the way you don’t say “vet” to a dog!
@Patrick Thank you. The feedback came from two different people. You know you have my support, my gratitude, and my enduring love. FEEL BETTER! Also, I’ll be back in early December and we must, must, must do something fun. Think restaurants. My treat, yo.
@Karen Wow, thank you. Such a nice comment!
@Kevin Don’t get me wrong. I liked to be liked. It’s always been my nature. It took me a long time not to take things personally. I don’t think you ever really get past it. But hold on to the constructive commentary that makes you see your own content differently, evolving your thought processes and I trust makes us a little more intuitive. This was so important for me to read. Thank you.
@Margo We’re fellow wincers and I had no idea you were going to #HRevolution. Yeah. See you on Saturday!
@NZ This is why I love you.
@Steve People don’t want feedback unfortunately. Listen, I want feedback. I never want to be the last one in the room to know that I suck. I want to be on top of my suckiness. It’s just hard to know what’s genuine and what is bullshit. So now I’m paranoid and either think that everyone hates me and wants to bring me down (not true) or that everyone knows something that I don’t know about myself and that I’m doing it wrong (also not true). The paranoid part of my brain gets activated quite easily due to the number of voices on this blog — but I’m learning to channel the voices and discern them differently (& I realize that I’m sounding schizophrenic).
UR DOIN IT RIGHT.
You post relevant, thought provoking stuff in a non-jackassery way. In having open-ended questions…you invite people to respond and connect and communicate…which is what all this social media blogging broo-ha-ha is all about, right?
(btw, I think the second comment about the “people who think seriously about work” crap makes me want to hurl. Really? They can go on over to CNBC.com or what the eff ever and read their blogs…douchebag.)
Anyways, I friggin love your blog. And I get tons of positive feedback from it when MY friends and colleagues read posts (see when I retweet or facebook link your shiz). Just sayin’
December is, to paraphrase that annoying Southwest commercial, so on!
And p.s., I guessed that the feedback came from two people. Still seems kinda odd that two people can walk away with such different takes on the same thing. It’s good that you hear it, but in the big scheme of things it may say more about them than it does you.
I’m only a new reader of your blog but I love it so far!
Working in communications, I find that the problem with feedback is often that it is opinion disguised as feedback.
Real feedback should clarify what the problem or benefit is to you at the receiving end.
For example your “feedbackers” should have explained how you and your readers are could be negatively impacted from a lack of focus on work and the global economy – or how having a reason to care more about you would help them to connect with your writings. For eg. Laurie I’d really like to hear more about who you are and what you stand for as I think it would help me to understand where you’re coming from.
Feedback should be constructed with the receiver in mind – not just so that you can get your opinion off your chest.
I think if more people took this approach F word wouldn’t be so hard on the ears.
Personally, I think the last thing most people want to see is another blog on work and the global economy so please don’t change!
Opinions are like assholes: everybody’s got ‘em, and they all stink. Probably this one too.
All you need to do is be you, keep cutting through the BS, and the rest will fall into line. There will always be Haters.
REBOOT