Welcome to another edition of F@%k It Friday.
Just to recap — It’s Friday. No one wants to work. Let’s talk about something other than work.
This week’s topic? Kids and sports.
Some people think it’s important for kids to learn how to play sports and compete. I think sports are overrated. Too many parents get caught up in sports and act like a-holes. When I see kids on the field, they all look miserable.
Do your kids play sports? Do you go to the games? Do you dread the games? Do your kids have fun? Do they learn any lessons about life?
Here’s a lesson your kids should learn: you’ll never be a professional [insert here] player. Suck it up and learn some real skills like math and science. Encourage your kids to be civil engineers and nurses, and the world will be a better place.
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Thank you for saying that.
I think sports are good — if the kid actually finds them interesting. It’s not a skill you learn so you can do it for a living. It’s a way to blow off steam and connect with other people. Some kids like dance, some like baseball, some like swimming. My kid likes chasing the dog around the park. As long as she gets enough exercise, who cares how she does it? My job as a parent isn’t to pick her interests for her; it’s to support her as she pursues them.
Of course, I’m a rather lazy mother.
Interesting topic. While I 100% agree with you on the education piece I don’t completely agree with the sports aspect. Agreed, there are parents out there who ruin it for everyone and are the ones who “kick sand in the sandbox”.
Me, I’m a youth coach as well as being in HR. I try to have my players learn, have energy and get into physical shape (so they aren’t playing video games and watching tv all day) and be a part of a team. If a coach is able to take a big picture approach to sports rather than the win at all cost mentality and the parents can be managed and trained to buy in as well, then it is a great experience.
(I’m not saying that I am) A good coach is a manager and needs to manage players, parents and everyones expectations. If it is visible that players are just not into it, this is when the coach needs to step and and have the tough conversations (just like in the workplace).
Sports are not for everyone, but they CAN help develop our youth in some small ways for their future.
You can learn real skills and play in sports, too – they aren’t mutually exclusive! My kids play sports, I rarely miss a game, I look forward to each season, they do have fun playing (when they don’t, they choose not to play that sport/team next season). Do they learn lessons about life? I think so – making friends, the value of hard work, what it’s like to lose even when you try your hardest to win, etc.
Yes, some parents can really foul-up a team. One league we’ve been part of makes the parents attend a pre-season workshop about how to behave. Some referees have penalized teams because parents acted-up (happened once in the past 10 years of sports). But by far, most parents play a positive and productive role in the team.
Some parents try to live vicariously through their kids’ success on the field. That’s sad, but that can also happen through music, dance, academics… That seems more of a parenting problem than a sports problem.
Wow…ook Laurie. I think they are some kids who are truly athletically gifted and if that’s the case- then I don’t see a problem encouraging them down that road. However, you can’t put a value on education and graduating high school and college which I think every kid should do.
So whether it’s being a star athlete, or having a PhD- both are quite valid and admirable careers- but it all depends on the strength of the kid and parents’ ability to notice that and guide their kids without forcing them or stifling them.
I don’t think the intent of youth sports programs is to incubate future professional atheletes. I never became a professional athelete, yet my time in sports as a kid was some of the most fun I ever had. That being said, I don’t think people should push their kids into sports, but it doesn’t hurt to introduce them to the games. The most important thing is the the kids stay active and get involved in something – something beyond the math and science, but it doesn’t have to be sports. Math and science are not much use unless you know how to work with people.
I think sports are important and I think they’re good for you, both as a kid and as an adult:
a) They encourage a healthier, more active lifestyle
b) They DO teach skills that are applicable outside of the world of sports (teamwork; healthy responses to competition, loss, success; discipline) – these skills can in fact (indirectly) help your kids to become nurses and civil engineers
c) They encourage important social interaction with other kids in their age group and provide more opportunities for similar social interaction later in life
d) If you want to get really philosophical, sports are part of the set of rituals that we use to build and maintain a society – if you don’t know enough about these rituals to participate in them at least nominally (you don’t have to be GOOD, but it helps to know how the games work) then you’re kind of boned. And who wants that?
So no, you don’t have to play like you’re going to wind up in the NHL, and yes, some parents ABSOLUTELY take their ambitions for their kids’ sports careers a little too far, but I think all kids should be encouraged to find a sport they like and at least try it out.
Agreed. But I’m with Steve on this one. I think rather than sports being the issue its the parents who wished they shoulda, woulda, coulda been and then inserting those wishes onto their children. Let kids be kids, even if that means competing for a plastic trophy, or entering a spelling bee. Because when I look into a classroom I bet I can spot just as many miserable children.
My personal opinion on this is that the idea of group/team activities is valuable to kids. However, this is not exclusive to sports alone. I think music/band, theatre, acedemic/social clubs, youth groups, etc. can all enhance confidence, teamwork, social skills and the such. I believe in the value of being part of a group to make kids feel connected. Clubs other than sports can provide this as well. And the minute that a kid is no longer having fun participating in any one of these activities– it’s time to take a break.
Kid’s sports provide children an excellent way to learn about teamwork, sportsmanship, manners and how to win and lose gracefully.
It’s also an entertaining way to identify the parents who never learned these lessons when they were young.
I can only echo what Ian wrote, those are the true historical benefits. What I would add is that the attainment of those benefits (via kid sports) is likely lessening over time. Quite frankly, the civility and common-thread of yesteryear’s decency seems to becoming further and further away to me.
I know it is off subject, but over the past few weeks, in my home town of Portland, Oregon, a father shot and killed his two small children, a mother threw her two small children off the Sellwood bridge killing one of them, and now a crazy woman last week lured a pregnant 21-year old into her house, killed her, and cut the unborn baby out causing it to also perish. I mean: What the hell is happening to our society? Makes me want to take my kids and run for the hills sometimes, away from all this crap, even far away from little league.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/hillsboroargus/2009/06/murders_suicide_erase_hillsbor.html
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/updates/14798198-55/story.csp
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jfa9crowwYSaKgP-QgbrSihF6iHAD98NDNN83
I’ve had this conversation many times with various friends who’s kids are way into sports. I know people who’s kids are on traveling hockey teams, traveling soccer teams, traveling football teams. They spend hours and hours traveling to, attending, and traveling from games. When we were kids, we road our own bikes to little league games. If we were lucky, once in a while a parent would show up to watch us. It didn’t make us feel any better or worse about playing. For many of my friends, the goal is for their child to get an athletic scholarship for college. We all usually agree that when you add up all the costs of time, travel, and equipment year after year, it far exceeds what tuition would have cost. It’s possible for kids to enjoy sports without completely immersing themselves every spare minute into an activity. It’s very difficult for kids to develop any other interests (i.e. art, reading, music, life) when they are constantly being pushed into sports. I think way to many parents go overboard in this regard.
I thinks kids playing sports is fine. This is more of the parents side. Parents need to know if the kid wants to play sports or wants to be a speller and run with it. However, if these parents force these kids into sports because of their “pride”, and I think this is the gist of your anger, the kid is going to be screwed.
Parents need to back out and see where the kid goes. If they’re heading to the wrong direction, intervene, but if there is something they like, go with the flow and support them.
If the kids want to participate then it is a great activity. My husband and I raised two boys and we let them choose their activities but we did tell them that it was not going to be sports 365 days a year. They had to choose two sports a year. One boy preferred team sports such as basketball and soccer while the other preferred cross-country running. For me the best thing is to be supportive of a child’s interest while providing other activities such as museum and historical site visits. My youngest son made major points when one of his first assignments in college was to listen to an episode of Prairie Home Companion and write a report. He was the only one who knew about Garrison Keillor since we listened to episodes on tape during family trips. The important thing is to provide support and lots of opportunities to explore interests.
I agree that there are some kids and some parents who take it all too seriously, but that could be replicated across music and indeed studies. Healthy balance is the key. To often we forget that the point of being a kid is to have fun.
Personally my practice Taekwondo, and there is nothing better than seeing my pretty and dainty seven year old daughter beating the living s**t out of someone twice her size. Now that’s a life skill!
Here’s the deal. Kids sports are never pretty when the parents are more into it than the kid. That is totally wrong. We’ve all met them. Some of them now coach their careers too!
And my basketball obsessed son? We’ve explained to him his height challenge may limit his opportunities, but if he makes up for it with with effort, seeking out one on one coaching and giving it his all…. who knows.
Effort. It’s ultimately up to him, not me.
I disagree…
I love sports…why do they have to be an either or with school or future careers?
MY daughter plays high level soccer, tennis and school volleyball, she used to swim competitively…she’s normal, great student and nice kid…why is sports bad???? she has great friends from her sports experience and she, not her parents, enjoy playing…when swimming was no longer fun she stopped…her choice…
No sports – will lead to even more fat kids sitting around playing video games and watchin 10 hours of tv everyday….like thats better…
gee I findly found a topic I completely disagree with you on…
M
I played softball for one season in 4th grade. I hated it. I played 3rd base, and the coaches always had to tell me if I had to tag the player out or just touch the base. I was afraid of the ball – I got hit in the face while playing catch with my dad.
I had an unnatural fear of soccer in 6th grade, and tripped over the ball constantly.
And I grew up to be the girl who sprained her ankle in college walking out of the computer lab, and then again getting out of a chair in my house.
Hear, hear, Moist Rub. I had a blast playing youth baseball up through Legion ball, and from an early age I knew I never had any hope of going beyond that. My eight-year-old just started playing Little League this year, and I hope it’s just as much fun for him as it was for me. If not, oh well.
Meantime, he’s learning that cooperation usually works better than ball-hogging, that he’s good at things he didn’t know he could do and that some things aren’t as easy as they look. Not bad lessons.
The league he plays in makes everyone (players, coaches and especially parents) sign what is essentially a Don’t Be an Asshole Oath. From what I’ve seen, it works. Who knows if that geniality will continue as the kids get older and some parents begin to see potential scholarships instead of rugrats grubbing in the dirt.
About midway through May, several of the parents began bringing Thermoses of “refreshments,” if you will, and this makes for a quite convivial Saturday afternoon. Seems to help keep the games in perspective.
Note to self: Pick up limes on the way home tonight.
I think some of the commenters are reading things into your post that aren’t there.
HR Chick sums up my thoughts pretty well. Sports don’t have any inherent value over other activities; anything can have a positive impact on kids. I participated in youth sports until I reached high school because there wasn’t anything else available in terms of school activities; once I was able to get involved in performing arts I switched to that and have never regretted it.
But you are right about academics needing to be the priority. Very, very few people get to be professional athletes, muscians, etc. And I also agree that when it stops being fun and stays that way, that it’s time to pack it in.
That said, most activities have one inherent plus over most sports in that they are coed. It’s how I met HR Minion, after all.
Sports has taught my daughter that you will have good bosses (coaches) and bad ones and you have learn to deal with both. You’ll have good co-workers (teammates) and sucky ones and you need to learn to be successful in your position regardless. With that said I’ll be glad when our sports phase is over and softball is no longer sucking up my free time.
Also the “everyone gets a trophy” philosophy is not doing any favors to our children.
It is important for kids to interact. I have one son who is a total jock and one who never played sports, but did theatre and a bunch of other stuff he enjoyed. These activities helped them develop and mature, as well as learn how to do deal with people in an interactive environment.
I am not sure XBOX does that. (cackling insanely since I live on the pipes and tubes!)
I agree that there are some parents who can take their kids’ sporting activities a bit too far. Think about it for a little: We grew up with the glorification of sports in American culture. Some parents who won’t admit it would love nothing better than to see their kids become the next Hall of Famers, or at least go to college on full scholarships so they won’t have to pay four years of tuition.
But, from my perspective as a youth soccer coach for several years, I never saw that. There are always a couple of parents who bark instructions to their kids during a game that run counter to a coach’s instructions, and it’s up to the coach to tell them – politely – to leave the coaching to the coach (been there).
What’s really important for parents is to let their kids succeed and fail on their own on the field, but even more important is to let them have fun. Youth sports build confidence, self-discipline, and camaraderie with others their own age. Fortunately. I’ve seen a lot more of that over the years than the negatives associated with youth sports.
And for those who try to nudge their student-athletes toward college scholarships, here’s a story: The high school in my town has a very solid athletic program, with hundreds of participants each year, and most of the school’s teams make it to post-season play every year. Last year, the athletic director told a meeting of parents the odds of landing a Division 1 college scholarship: In his 10 years as AD, only five such scholarships were awarded to athletes from the school.
That’s why academics will always be more important. But there is indeed value in youth sports.
I was a jock in high school and I want my girls to have that experience. They have both tried soccer and they both suck. So my 8-year-old switched to baseball, at which she is better, and my 4-year-old took dance, which she is also better at.
I think sports are great for kids – as long as you don’t force kids to play sports they are terrible at.
I don’t care about sports. I only care that my kids aren’t fat-asses. Between TV & computer it’s really easy for kids to be extremely sedentary, especially when they have bad parents like myself that work too much instead of playing with them. For me sports = time away from a giant screen and that’s what I most care about.
I was one of those miserable kids a few years ago. While I loved to play sports, once I got to high school, things got way too political and out of hand (not to mention that I had a raging helicopter parent). I was so turned off by it that I used to come home in tears. Once I finally realized that it was ok to quit, I was much happier. Sports didn’t get me ahead or get me into a good college, etc.. Getting good grades and participating in groups like National Honors Society were the things that got me a great scholarship. I guess the moral of my story is that while physical activity is great and all, academics will get you a lot farther.
If you’re asking about whether sports give people a “life skills” advantage, I’d say it’s a coin toss. Chess and bridge can help you acquire sharper strategic skills – but, those aren’t considered “sports”.
If we’re talking about the “how to get along with others” or “how to accept defeat or victory with grace” type skills – then – again, yes sports are ONE way. But, ONLY if those skills are demonstrated and valued. The brawls between over-excited parents or fans of the players lays evidence that current day sports often lack this element.
So – if you can’t walk the talk, then how about just making a point to TELL kids about this stuff and drive it into their little noggens ad nauseum until they get that it’s important? Keep them off that playing field until you know what lessons they’re going to pick up out there. Wait- maybe is ISN’T so bad to let them see the more seemly side of human behavior. Talk about life lessons… (Yeah – this is yet another reason why cats are better.)
And, don’t even get me started (that’s my new motto, by the way) about the other part of the prevalent culture of child rearing wherein there are no winners or losers and everyone is “special”. If ever anyone wanted to undo some of those supposed advantages to playing sports, I think they just may have found the perfect method!
What I don’t see mentioned in other comments (and I admit I just sort of skimmed them) is simply that kids AND adults need to be ACTIVE. Forget the sports part.
Want a few reasons? Look at the front page for news about our nationwide epidemic of obesity; the national health crisis related to life style choices and the associated economic impact; and, all the evidence that you just generally function better in every aspect of life when you’re when more fit…
Reallly – why worry so much about the debate about whether provide psychological or emotional benefits, when we’re killing ourselves off with super sized burgers and shakes?
And, sure – “sports” aren’t the only paths to activity. There are yoga, Tai Chi, walking, etc… I, too, am of the coordinationally challenged heritage. So, the very few times I was ever in the line up as teams were chosen, I was inevitably chosen last or picked to “ref” (hmmm – possible portend of career choice????) Anyway – I’m here to tell you that no matter what cards you’ve been dealt, there is SOME way and more than one benefit to physical movement.
If you do NOTHING else today, please sign off the tube and and move around a bit. Repeat as necessary.
Sports are dumb.
HALF WAY DONE THROUGH THE COMMENTS FROM THE BOTTOM UP.
@Nelking Wow, a well-adjusted parent!!
@Mark F Sports have little to do with whether or not kids are fat. Some of the fattest people I know RIGHT NOW are former college and high school athletes who ate like crazy fools, burned calories just through their existence, and now struggle with weight like the rest of us.
@ME I think we had the same childhood!
@JohnDC I could only do sports if margaritas were involved.
@Tim You’re right about the comments. Also, I approve of drunken sports used as a tool for dating. Lots of people I know met spouses through kickball teams, touch football, and softball teams. Lots of beer was involved.
@Ann Love it. You will not get a trophy for your comment, though.
@MDVT I think you can develop nicely and play XBOX or whatnot. It’s okay to be introverted and Vitamin D deficient. Look at Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Really, I’m okay with it.
@Rick I accept your POV & agree that some kids can learn lessons from sports; however, I’d like to create a culture where kids learn lessons about math, science, and civics. Throw in a few lessons about common sense and accountability. Those are my priorities. Your perspective on scholarships is totally insightful, btw.
@GenX Sometimes I wish I had kids so I could test out theories of parenting. Right now it’s all speculation on my part.
@Dan I see where you’re going, but I love TV. Let me tell you something: I watched a TON of television. So did my husband. We’re both smart, and for the most part, relatively healthy adults (physically). I think kids are better off watching TV than warming the bench at an ultra-competitive soccer game. The reasons why kids are heavier is a complex discussion, but I don’t blame TV.
@Angela Thank you!
@I, Anonymous I don’t buy that kids learn anything from sports except arbitrary lessons on the unfairness of being benched. When you get down to it, it’s all about winning. I also don’t believe kids are fatter because they’re moving around less frequently than the good old days. Kids are fat for a host of reasons — including the documented addictive nature of high fructose corn syrup.
@Jenn You know what’s worse than sports? Jocks. Don’t let your kids become jocks.
@Guin Happy to do it!
@Mary Ellen I’m such a lazy mother that I won’t even have kids. So you’re pretty awesome and level-headed compared to me.
@Kufarms I know sports have some benefits, but I think the larger point is that academics have more benefit than sports. Also, what’s with this correlation between TV and fat kids. I’m not sure that’s a fact. I watched like 90 hours of TV/week when I was growing up and I didn’t get super-chunked-out until college.
@SteveB That’s a good point about sports being mucked up by parents, but I still think it’s better to invest your child’s free time into something that stretches the mind. Could that be sports? Maybe.
@Karen I think there needs to be a balance. Fine, let your kids plays sports or whatnot. But why put so much effort into that activity and shy away from sitting down and doing algebra homework with them?
@Moist Some of the most successful professional athletes — Kobe, Berry, Roger, etc — are narcissistic a-holes. I don’t know a whole lot of narcissistic PhDs in Chemical Engineering. Oh wait, maybe the one I married.
@Ian I dunno. I’m not 100% with you. That’s okay, though.
@Jen I hate it when parents live vicariously thru their kids, too. Why can’t parents be happy with mediocre, average kids?
@HRChick I like it when kids learn how to spend time alone — not being entertained. Go read a book, kiddo. Learn how to kill time. Go dig a hole for no reason other than you need some quiet time alone. Am I crazy? Is it good that I don’t have kids?
@Al Writes Well said!
@Dale I’m with you. Take ‘em on a run or take ‘em to the movies. Just do SOMETHING with them. Scary stuff.
@Andy G I agree. Some of those soccer teams are insane. I know my nephew does volleyball — and he’s good at it — but it becomes a lifestyle to live on the road, travel, and enter these tournaments.
@Tracy If I had kids, I would encourage them to fall in love with sports as a cynical, disgruntled spectator. Just like their mom.
@SandyH I love how your kids listened to NPR. That’s adorable.
Actually, as a soccer coach for both my sons growing up, I think I learned more than they did. About parenting, about teamwork (yeah, I know it’s for suckers) and about my sons. The real insight came when my youngest was ready to sign up for a third year. When I asked him about it, I found out he signed up because he thought I wanted to coach, and I was coaching because I thought he wanted to play. Lesson re-learned (and continually demonstrated even today): you gotta ask questions – make no assumptions.
Sports are cool! As a highly trained dancers I sometimes give dance lessons to kids. I love to make them do push ups and sit ups in the most grueling combinations till they cry for their mommy’s
I am not being mean, I am just learning them how to deal with pain, or doing stuff you don’t like because it comes with territory 
I agree that sports is good for some children, some kids excel at sports, it teaches good lessons. As a parent with a child that isn’t naturally gifted and doesn’t really care about sports, I’m sick of the other parents that treat me like I’m crazy for not having my daughter in soccer or softball or fill in the blanks. We’ve tried it all, we’ve suffered together. Will she be a worse person for not having the experience? I don’t think so. At least she tried. The emphasis sometimes is too much.
I’d love your agenda for teaching my child be be a nurse when he’s 5 – seriously, if he can start pulling in a salary tomorrow I’d love that plan, too. And how many 5 year olds do you know that want to sit there and learn math all day? I love sports – if anything it gives my kids an organized outlet for their energy. True, neither of them will be professional sports players, but so far it’s been great for them. Both have tried a few sports, they each really like one or two, and they’ve made a lot of friends.
I think it all depends on why the kids are doing the sports and how the parents are involved or rather not involved, because if they’re not coaching they need to just sit there and shut up and let the kids play.
@Jen I’m laughing so hard. I know, I know, I want your kids to sit in the house at age 5 and do multiplication tables. Because I’m all realistic & shit. I like the idea of telling kids to go play. Just go. Get the hell out of the house. Make trouble. Play in the dirt. Ride your bikes. Sports? Well, I’m iffy on it. That’s probably why I have cats. (Although Jake plays soccer with his little sponge-ball.)
@Rampancy No I’m pretty sure you are being mean. That’s so funny.
@HRRocks I guess it’s never wrong to try something. Better they try soccer or basketball than meth.
@Tim G. Was that a teachable moment for you?!
I did sports through high school – good enough to make the team, but spent a lot of time on the bench. In some sense that was a lot of “wasted” hours – but you do learn things, develop skills, etc. The bottom line was, however – I did it because I felt like I “had” to. As for my kids, we gave them the opportunities – they all tried various sports – ultimately didn’t have much interest, and we let them drop out without any pressure to do otherwise.
Unfortunately, the culture through high school still favors prom queens and jocks. It sucks, but that’s how society seems to work. Personally, I’d like to see less emphasis on sports in school. And, frankly, I think that starts with fewer parents trying to live out their jock fantasies through their kids…
BTW – my kids are knocking the ball out of the park academically, and IMHO, are some of the best-adjusted kids I know (I COULD be biased).
p.s. there are few experiences more gratifying than seeing how the high school star quarterback wound up 20 years later.
I think some aspects of sports — the right sports — are great lessons to be learned. Teamwork. Overcoming adversity. That sort of stuff.
I’ve coached both of my boys in football, t-ball, and communist soccer*. I even coached youth football one season when I didn’t even have a kid playing at the time. Now, one plays baseball and rugby. The other plays rugby and football.
The only problems I’ve every really come across are kids that are sooooo overscheduled that they can’t focus or enjoy any one activity because Mom or Dad are prepping to get them on to the NEXT activity. Let ‘em have some down time. Let ‘em figure out how to entertain themselves in the backyard every once in a while.
* We call it communist soccer because everybody gets a trophy, no matter what.
We’ve moved 4 times since my oldest son was born, and sports teams have always been a conduit through with I could count on my kids making new friends. We’ve also bonded on quite a few road trips out to tournaments. I’m not counting on scholarships or careers in the MLS. I just want them to have fun and try their hardest. While they do, I am always willing to hang with the other parents and have a beer!
I remember reading about Alan Page, former Chicago Bear, in the Wall Street Journal. While still playing for the Bears, he got his law degree from the University of Minnesota. He is now a Minnesota state supreme court justice. When asked if his kids played school sports, “because of all they learn in team activities,” here replied that organized sports was the last thing he encouraged his kids to do. He said that he hoped his kids would play tennis or some other individual sport.