Here is another PRHR question.
Hi Laurie! So, question o’ the day — I’m still on the job hunt, and since unemployment benefits are now all gone, I am now in the must-work, any-job-will-do phase of the job search. I may get to fulfill that dream of head fry chef at Arby’s yet.
My question for you and possibly your readers is a “talk me down” question: Is there any way to “universalize” the data I use to apply to jobs? Is there a product I’m missing that stores a repository of my info (resume, database version of resume these programs ask me to build, etc.).
It’s just so frustrating that seemingly every company uses different programs. I know some use Taleo, etc. but those never seem to retain information across the program.
I know from a recruiting standpoint, a company wouldn’t want to share that info (especially if they have a desirable candidate), and from a security standpoint they need to keep it private. But I swear, 80 to 90% of my time job seeking is filling out exactly the same information over and over again.
Just wondering if there are any thoughts from you on this….or maybe your readers?
- Patrick
Well, shoot, I don’t know anything about this subject. Any HR Tech people out there who can answer this question? Are there any tools on the horizon? Why don’t we have more universal, thoughtful, and standard ways for employees to fill out applications?
Here’s what I want to see.
- An authenticated profile that is created by a job seeker and stored on a safe and secure system.
- A tool, such as FacebookConnect, that links a job application system to your authenticated profile.
- Partnerships between job boards or sites, such as LinkedIn, where you go to a company’s career site but you log into the site and apply for a job using your LinkedIn username and password.
What’s out there? Is someone working on this stuff? Does it already exist? Give me the scoop, people!
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Probably right now the closest thing to what you are describing is a service called ResumePal. The idea is a type of ‘universal job application’ that a job seeker can create in one place, and numerous employers can accept either directly, or via ResumePal integration with their Enterprise ATS. Many of the big ATS vendors have signed up to support this integration, but I am not sure how many have actually implemented the changes as yet. Truthfully, this type of support is a really low priority to organizations. Although a compelling argument could be made that support for a universal profile or job application is great for candidates, many companies are not quick to sign up for extra work, cost, and integration hassles to make this a reality. Integration with LinkedIn to corporate systems is starting to happen in a few contexts (see who you may be linked to at a certain company in a job application, or ‘push’ job listings out to LinkedIn) but I personally have not seen an ATS that allows the job seeker to populate a corporate job application with their LinkedIn data. Although I suspect something like that may be coming soon. I would also recommend setting up a VisualCV that you can use anywhere, simply providing the URL to any place that you apply.
In addition, those of us in small organizations (less than 150 EEs for me; with maybe 10 open positions per year) still use PAPER employment applications too. I know – it’s a pain in the ass to fill those out; I agree.
However I don’t see myself migrating away from paper for this process; it’s still the easiest way at my particular company. Plus, I still want your signed attestation that all info is truthful, accurate, etc etc. so won’t just take the resume. This does remind me though; I need to revamp my App form.
I agree with Patrick. As someone who is unemployed currently I share the daily frustration of having to fill out the handwritten application. I too, Would love to see some stramlining in this area. I have used Taleo, and other platforms. Ideas, suggestions?
I went through the same crap like that over and over again. Then I realized that a job I really want isn’t going to be found through some computerized filter. I went straight to the source, contacted the company I was looking at, and now I’m working in a company that I actually WANT to work with!
IMHO, skip the gatekeepers and automated stuff and go straight to the people. If you’re what they are looking for, then they will be thrilled that you plopped on their doorstep instead of them having to come find you.
While I understand Patrick’s frustrations, I think he’s an ass for belittling the hard working people in the QSR industry.
Of course you already know why I’m biased, but c’mon. If you’ve ever spent a day in the restaurant behind the counter, you’d know how difficult the work truly is.
John – I’m sorry if that comment sounded insulting. I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek with Laurie.
I didn’t mean to belittle ANY job, and as someone who worked in fast food (including the aforementioned Arby’s) for several years in and after college, I know that it’s hard work and a very respectable job.
I was trying to approach this topic with levity, instead of with tears, which is what having the financial bottom of your existence fall out brings on. Sorry to anyone I insulted.
Patrick, we’re cool and I’m sorry for being an ass myself. I spent a few hours last night getting hammered on the topic of working in QSRs and how certain peeps from industries have a tendency of turning up their noses.
Laurie, sorry for the extended conversation in the comments thread.
Ben – That’s a great idea, and I have started to do some “cold” applications to companies I’d like to work for. I just made a pitch to a media company here in Chicago the other day.
But trying to bypass the “system” for a posted job is difficult; I do try to use the company’s own website vs. a job board whenever possible.
I know some systems will ask you to upload a resume and then extract information from it – but I usually have to edit what it uploads so extensively that it defeats the “time saving” element.
Steve – ResumePal sounds promising….I need to check it out.
John – honestly, if I could find an Arby’s that would hire me full time for $8/hr or more, I’d so be there. Though I’m not sure I could sport the big Arby’s hat – that might be too much for me!
My low-tech suggestion: Make 2 copies of your resume – your super-duper, highly formatted/stylized Word doc; and a plain-Jane text version of your Word doc without the super-duper, highly formatted styles (remove all the bold/italics/underlines, tabs, special characters, etc). It looks completely boring, but the text version makes it MUCH EASIER to copy/paste into online applications. Still time-consuming, but not as much as typing every line or trying to un-format in the application.
Many of the Talent Management systems out there have interface/integration points to the bigger career boards like Monster and Careerbuilder (as well as many of the smaller ones, too). However, due to privacy issues they can only get to your info if you click “apply.” Thus, you’re restricted to apply to companies that post jobs on those boards. However, once you click “apply” your info is pushed to their TM system and they can mine that data however they want to.
Similar to Ben’s comment of contacting companies that you’d like to work for – apply for jobs via Monster/Careerbuilder at companies you’d like to work for. Even if you’re not qualified for the position, your resume is now in their TM system. If they have a good system/process they’ll match applicants within their talent pool to available positions regardless of what position they applied for.
Patrick– has this hard work paid off at all?? Phone interview at least??
As a recruiter, my opinion of online submittal has waned over the years– where if I was looking for work– and this is where I totally agree with Ben— I would be contacting companies directly LONG before I sat in my underware, watching bad daytime TV, submitting applications for hours. And the companies you REALLY want to work for??– call once a month from now untill they give you a job just to shut you up!!! I used to work freelance graphic design for years– and clients don’t fall out of the sky— in that industry you have to hustle your ass off for the next gig! Good Luck—
Not to sound like a jerk, and I hope to keep my job until my choosing to leave it but, what else do you have to do other than fill out applications?
By filling out a different one every time you can tailor it to the specific company or position or try something different to stand out. If you are filling them out the exact same way every time, why not mix it up try something different until you get a favorable response.
MattyMat – Believe me, there is no sitting in underwear here. It would scare my neighbors.
I didn’t initially “cold” apply to companies but I have certainly increased my efforts there, mainly because almost 8 months and 350-400 resumes/applications after my layoff, I have had NO callbacks, no phone interviews, no nuthin’.
Nick – you’re right, I have nothing but time. And I’m not suggesting that I want it to be push-button easy.
But I spend a lot of time researching and LOOKING for a job that I’ll be a good match for. Having a way to port that resume info would save some time and allow me to submit a few more apps every day.
I do edit my entries to target the company I’m applying for, so I do “mix it up.”
FYI – just found a reference at Taleo to “Facebook Platform Access” which claims to “Get more valuable referrals by tapping directly into this popular social utility using the Taleo Business Edition™ Now Hiring! feature.” I did check out Kenexa, too, but they didn’t have anything posted to this effect. Those are the big two in TM – but there are plenty of other good softwares out there as well – apologies that I don’t mention them all, but didn’t have time to research all my contacts.
Here’s the Taleo linky: http://www.taleo.com/products/business-edition-modules-smart-sourcing.php
I’m going to get close to heresy here (what with my glass house and all) but I think the whole idea of job applications are a serious pain. They are a pain for computer systems who are trying to automate the screening of applicants and they are a pain for the applicant who just wants a job.
I would love to have some idea to ease the pain but agree with Steve that the real problem is the cost and the business ROI (plus the complexity). HR-XML made an attempt but with no real luck. Seems LinkedIn has the best momentum but as far as I know they don’t publish a service for individuals to use to solve this problem. Similar situation with ResumePal and VirtualCV.
Frankly, I’d be open to hearing technology solutions to this problem that are cost effective and actually helpful to the applicants (i.e., not tied to a single vendor). People with ideas should hit me with them directly.
-Meg (meg.bear@oracle.com)
Applications are a necessary evil. I’m interested to see the problem solved and our application process improved, but not interested enough to spend much money on it right now. I suspect this the kind of thing that you can sell the money guys on when unemployment is around 4% and you want to do something(anything) to get someone(anyone!!!) to reply to postings. As much as I think most hiring managers would hate to admit it, I think a lot of them are a bit relieved that applying requires a little work on the part of the applicant. Unsolicited resumes and “job-bot” submissions are just…. overwhelming when unemployment is at 10%.
Patrick — there was a string here about how to find a job during tough times. http://punkrockhr.com/job-seekers/
There’s no magic answer. You probably need to try everyone’s advice. Twice.
And Arby’s is nice. The 9th level of Hell was Del Taco (anyone remember Del Taco???? I hope they do not rest in peace.) This applies to the “Take this job and shove it string “too, by the way. I worked at Del Taco for 4 days when I was 15. I am not proud of this, but I took the trash out to the dumpster and threw my hat and shirt into it instead of the unused taco and burrito refuse of which I was supposed to dispose. I then hid from manager behind a black Chevelle until my parents came to pick me up from work an hour later. It IS hard work and I have mad respect for the people who clock in every day for indentured servants’ wages to make sure I have my transfats.
Ah… Del Taco!! Taco Tuesday— and it’s the only “mexican” fast food joint that doesn’t make me sick!!
Still around.
Patrick I feel your pain. I really do – as a current job seeker who has applied in at least 20 Taleo systems this month and a person who has implemented HR technology like Taleo.
Unfortunately, I don’t believe job seekers are at the center of the recruitment process or recruitment systems. The systems are designed to support the organization in managing their process. Job seekers are on the outside, trying to get in.
Which is why I agree with other posts to this question that the job seeker has to pave their own way in. Personally, I look for companies I am interested in working for first. Then I look at their job opportunities. If I see something I believe would be a good fit, I look to my social network for a lead in and contact those folks. My next step usually requires that I craft a resume specific to the job. My professional history includes many hats so I have to tailor what is relevant for the opportunity at hand. Lastly, there’s the follow up. The pieces are really all over the place. This is something I would love to see change – an offering of a solid mashup from the job seekers perspective.
There are some aims to strengthen the candidate profile-based approach https://www.taleo.com/research/articles/talent/benefits-saved-candidate-profiles-79.html. Again, this is more or less consideration for the organization having to manage duplicate data because it degrades their data and it’s costly and time consuming for them. Not really trying to support the fact that you have duplicated the process of applying at 20 sites.
So this doesn’t really solve the problem for the job seeker who still needs to create this profile in multiple career systems, including those using the same technical solution like Taleo.
There are solutions like VisualCV that allow you to create your own unique ‘candidate profile’ http://www.visualcv.com/www/a_better_resume/how_to_use_a_visualcv/index.html and link up with your social networks. You can create several VisualCVs if necessary to target a specific job as an example, but you only need to create one source and share. I’d like to see this type of solution integrated to career sites. You can add a link to your VisualCV in any online resume or job-posting site.
Here is a recruitment solution that does also utilize social recruiting, JobVite http://www.jobvite.com/Recruiting/Solution.aspx. JobVite also pulls in LinkedIn profile data and utilizes Facebook and Twitter. I’ve done as suggested and directly contacted one of my LinkedIn contacts about a posted job. He replied by sending me a JobVite to apply. This gives some leverage to see that the VP of “X” has recommended that I apply.
Here is a post on how to get past the resume gatekeeper aka the filter http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/02/news/economy/kowitt_resume.fortune/index.htm
I will add a bit more on this topic in my blog tomorrow. http://thelearningentourage.wordpress.com
Thanks everyone…..
Re: fast food and service industry positions….I’m willing to do the work. But I *am* in a big catch-22 right now, because I *have* applied to entry-level jobs and service industry jobs.
And they’re all delivering a smackdown, because they look at my experience and figure I’d burn tire marks on their back as soon as a job closer to my current experience comes open. Target, World Market, CVS, Walgreens, Jamba Juice, local grocery stores – they’ve all said no, thanks.
Back in the day, I worked at Taco Bell – which was the most pleasant of all the jobs I ever worked in fast food. I hung in there for almost a year. Del Taco sounds scary, though.
@Steve I love how you are the 1st person to respond! Yeah! Everyone follow Steve on twitter, btw. http://twitter.com/steveboese
@Roolvoel Paper applications? Are you a communist?!
I do hear you on the expenses. Paper works just fine.
@Shennee I’m glad you can empathize with Patrick!
@John I’m glad you and Patrick worked this out. Patrick is solid in my book!
@Whitney I like the innovation. Good idea.
@Ben I’m with you on going straight to the source. For those of us who have applied at Nodstroms, Sears, Macy’s, Belk, and 1000s of other retail companies in our lives — how do we avoid retail application hell??
@HRPuter The last 100 hires I’ve made were through referrals from people who told me about candidates. I can’t think about a time in my recent past where I hired someone by searching through a candidate database. I do have to say, “Please go online and enter your information into the database so I can close the req and forward your information to payroll.” Shoot, what a mess.
@MattyMat I’m with you on professional gigs. I think Patrick is venting frustration for non-professional gigs.
@Nick I dunno, there’s plenty of stuff to do in life besides fill out applications. I get your broader point, though.
@Meg THANK YOU. Dudes, if you have a great idea, tell Meg about it. She has the power to make stuff happen.
@Scott OMG, my intestines know Del Taco very well. There was one in St. Louis and it was cheap, fast, and cheap. Did I mention it was cheap?
@Rhonda Whoa, I will totally check out those links but more importantly, I need to add you to my blogroll. Thank you, that’s an awesome comment.
@Patrick Whoa this is great feedback. I can see why you face a Catch-22. Talented, smart, and good looking. Jamba Juice won’t hire you because you don’t want to make smoothies for an extended period of time. You want something more. They don’t want to train you and have you quit. I wonder if temp work is as option? Have you tried Kelly or Spherion?
Yes – Mining data has a limited affect. In the “brave new world” of Talent Management systems, all the mining of the data does is get you a list of people to phone screen. There’s still something to be said for the skill of the recruiter/hiring manager at determining whether or not the person has the right stuff. Data is 2-dimensional and a lot of the data provided is false/inflated to “trip the triggers” in TM systems. I’ll still take a qualified referral over a anonymous resume – so long as I trust the referrer’s integrity.
But this beg’s the question: What’s the role of a recruiting system? Is it purely to track applicant workflow (and subsequently onboard the new employee into the HRMS) or does the warehouse of applicant data have any true value (how quickly does the applicant data get stale?)?
You can’t avoid retail application hell. There are secret reasons for this. I cannot reveal them. That is al!
@Laurie, @Patrick — we can all generalize til we’re blue in the face about applying for possible positions that are available in our vast universe– I’d like to know what specific industry (and location) Patrick is associated with to maybe better focus his job search– might make the difference in any advice given.
Are you a stilletto heal installer for B-list celebrities? a mid-level to upper level ninja assassin, perhaps?? (the assassin business isn’t what it used to be, y’know…)
I am having a similar difficulty. Every organization asks largely the same information. I am sorry, but my job history does not change depending on what organization I am applying to. Certain things do change and it is those things and only those elements of biodata that should change.
Even without a steady paycheck I am working long days. I suspect I am not the only one. the last thing I need is 90 minutes of busy work from an organization that will probably never even send an automated acknowledgment. So, if these automated systems suck for applicants and they aren’t all that useful for selection agents, why the hell are we using them?
I suspect that at least one person on this list of contributer has the potential to take market share from Taleo… and I would be willing to help. Any takers?
haha! Sorry, I forgot to close the parentheses. Sorry! Guess who’s NOT a programmer?
@MattyMat – I used to be a ninja but the liability insurance was too much for me.
Seriously: I have a somewhat schizophrenic career (and I’m not sure I’ve finessed describing what it’s all about).
I have mid-level experience in admin/support in banking and insurance – very regulated stuff, almost a legal/paralegal admin in some of what I’ve done.
I also am a writer. I have a freelance portfolio of magazine and newspaper feature pieces, and I was also a staff writer at a big, giant, behemoth job board Which Shall Not Be Named.
@Patrick
I’m having trouble keeping up with the conversation, but if you’re the one looking for a job, and you have some writing experience, then I know a few places where you can make some $. Shoot me an email to upstarthr@gmail if interested.
Patrick, if you’re still considering hourly work, check out SnagAJob.com (full disclaimer: I work there). I can tell you firsthand that our site is way easier than paper applications. On SnagAJob.com you create your profile once and then you can submit it to any job you’re interested in.
The applications go straight into the email inbox of the hiring manager. It’s exactly like driving to the place you’d like to apply to, filling out an application, and giving it directly to the hiring manager – except it won’t cost you any gas money. As an added bonus, we have a big variety of jobs, not just restaurant and retail work. Check us out!
I admit it’s Friday afternoon (and I’m cranky) but, if you can’t take 15-30 min to tailor your application to a company then why should I waste my time reading it? It’s annoying and hard work, but worth it.
@Stefanie: Thanks for the info! I’ll check it out.
@JCel: My original question to Laurie wasn’t about making it “push button easy.” I understand that every job I apply to is a unique opportunity. And I want the option to tailor my submission to each application, because depending on the job, I will emphasize a different skill or experience.
Again, automating the process was NOT MY GOAL. But I would love it if there was some uniform way to TRANSPORT the data. Several people have made great suggestions about how to work around that, and places to set up profiles. But my question was whether anything like that existed, and no, there isn’t a standard program or app out there.
I don’t question the value of spending 30 minutes on an application, JCel. I’m willing to work hard and compete to get the job. But I’ve submitted several hundred applications since I was laid off, and it’s time I wish I could spend on actually IDENTIFYING the opportunities out there.
When I’ve been inside of a company, improvements to a process or more efficient ways to accomplish a goal have usually been welcomed and/or rewarded. Even if it’s not adopted, the idea is usually rewarded. It concerns me that as a candidate, my feedback/idea is perceived as “he can’t take the time – or is too lazy – to complete the info.”
Every CV has to be tailor-made for the role per se, otherwise, there’s nothing in store.
Sometimes you know. They want to screen you out from what you tell them so that they have enough info. for employment screening.
For example, there is a case of a guy that if the company had done a pre-employment screening background check on his criminal record, you would have found that he has a history of assaulting women and could not be a good candidate to work in the call center at night with other female colleagues. Future behavior can be predicted by past conduct as shown by many studies.
Application is very important as well to track your history.
A good program i have found for helping to fill out forms is roboform. It does several things besides fill out forms, and you can carry it on your thumb drive as well. However, it is still maddening to have to keep entering a lot of stuff, but i think it is helpful.
I have dreamed of a universal App for a long time. It makes so much sense to people who have to fill out these insane and invasive documents. I feel like telling these employers to shove it where the sun don’t shine. Yesterday I applied for a low end job that actually had 80 of those ridiculous questions that pick your brain apart. You’d think i was applying for a 100k a year job. And the rest of the app was also appalling. I submitted a resume, and then I had to write out 4 of my previou jobs again.If a business accepts a resume. isn’t the idea that they get the resume, if they are interested, they call you in, and then you fill out an application. And I know I must have signed my name at least 4 times. How ridiculous is that. And this was for a low end shit job. Makes me sick. I feel like telling them to kiss my arse if they call me in.