From GG.
Hi-a Laurie! I have been wondering about this for a while now and thought your readers might have some insight. Do companies really use their job boards when they select people? I ask because I have spoken to a few people that said they don’t. In fact, one person told me explicitly not to bother with the job posting on their website, as they really only hired from referrals and other more direct sources. So how common a practice is this?
I have had a feeling that all my responses to internal job boards are being sucked into a vast black hole of effort and time. Over the years I can honestly say I have only been contacted by a single company and I have responded to probably more than 100 postings.
On a related note, how else is a candidate supposed to get in touch with the right people?
GG, I know two ways to get hired in this economy. Sleep with someone at the company or ask someone to do you a favor.
I’m not kidding around.
Anyone have any insights on this one?
- Did you put out?
- Did you blackmail someone?
- Did you use a job board?
How were you hired in this murky economy? Admit it — did you do someone a favor and get your job? Did you network like crazy? Did you use Monster.com? Let us know!
{ 1 trackback }
{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }
I would have never guessed it, but I’m in the process of finding another sales recruiter to join my team and the best candidate I’ve spoken with so far applied directly to the posting on our website!
Since 1995 here is how I got my jobs:
As a Master’s student I applied for a job at my school’s career center. The hiring manager was an alum from my program. I was there five years.
Then I found (and got) a job through Monster.com. By coincidence the hiring manager was an alum from my Master’s program. Maybe that helped get my resume selected for interview from the masses? I was there five years.
Then I found and got my current job completely by word of mouth. I worked in the past with the woman who referred me to the hiring manager. The job was never posted anywhere. I was the only candidate. (No alums paid a part in this search.) I’ve been there 4.5 years. I plan on being here for quite a while. I have too awesome of a schedule to mess with.
I often wonder where my next job will come from. I don’t plan on sleeping with anyone!
Where my company currently gets its hires: specialized technical recruiters (who make a hefty fee), students at targeted colleges (on campus recruiting and job boards), people who apply to us directly through our website, referrals (friends) of employees.
Hi everyone: I think that it’s important not to throw away the job boards notion entirely, but don’t depend on them entirely either. Make job board cruising only a small fraction of the time you spend looking for a new job. With so many companies reducing their recruiting staff, keeping their job boards up to date may be the last thing on the minds of the poor survivors, the last of whom is tasked with turning out the lights. So the job boards keep humming along sending out invitations to apply for non-existent jobs, sort of like the 16-year-old SOS transmissions on Lost.
People do get hired via job boards. I happen to know of one who got a job that way in the last year or so (it’s taken on the proportions of urban myth at this point). But think of all the hundreds, if not thousands, of applicants for those openings who don’t even hear back.
Keep in mind that generally 70% of all jobs that get filled are never published or formally announced (it’s that hidden job market thing). And even those rotten statistics that came out this weekend saying that in July 2.4 million jobs were filled, with 14 million unemployed, were slightly misleading. As it happens, 4 million jobs were filled (the extra 1.6 million came from the hidden job market). Still sucks. But not quite so badly.
Bottom line: If you’re counting 100 percent on job boards performing for you, I hope you like staring at the unringing telephone (I’m assuming nope).
Keep your knees together!
For professional positions, I’m no fan of the job boards, I have found their ROI less than attractive. I have found my roles through being available. I’m out there networking, speaking, talking (lot’s of talking -I like to learn about people and companies).
I have never put out for a job, as a dude, I don’t think there’s much demand for that.
No blackmail – because if I’ve got to work that hard to get in someplace I’m not wanted, than how’s that job going to be?
I do recommend being social. The power of networking both on-line and in person is more powerful than all of the job boards and The Hulk combined.
Maybe I’m just the extreme exception to this so called phenomenom, but in my nearly 30 year career, I’ve gotten every job except two from responding to a traditional newspaper ad or job board. And the non-traditional job snags were VERY early in my career.
Also, as an HR generalist with recruiting responsibility for more than 20 years, I FILL most of my jobs through traditional channels. I believe that job-board technology has made some aspects of recruiting more challenging, though. I think it’s because it’s so much easier to apply online than the “old school” method of typing a “real” resume on a “real” piece of paper and finding a stamp and mailing it. This results in a huge number of “what the heck, I’ll apply even though I’m ridiculously unqualified” responses. What then happens is that a truly great candidate gets lost in the flotsom of all the crappy resumes.
Personally, I think the 70% hidden job market is an overstated myth. I’ve had this conversation with my peers, and most agree that the EXCEPTION to their job history is the job or 2 they got through non-traditional means. However, this may reflect my age and the fact that the job market has changed dramatically — BUT I’ve been hearing the same hidden job market song since I hit the working world in the early 80′s. So I don’t buy it.
Oh wait. There was another job I got purely through social connections. WORST. JOB. EVER. Lasted 90 days until I quit, with nothing else lined up.
And no, I can’t recall sleeping with anyone to get a job. Although there are some definite fuzzy-memoried years from back in those 80′s!
I was hired into my current posting via monster.com. Our job board postings link to our company resume so I can not totally tell you if our external hires came through a job board first. However, of the last 5 people that I hired; 3 were external. 1 was an internal hire from another business unit, and the final 1 was working in our department for another manager. Except for the person from our department; the other four hires did not have an “in” to the position.
Of the 5 positions that I filled, I had at least one internally referred applicant for each position. I only interviewed one ever. Most submitted incomplete or totally lazy resumes and cover letters. I guess that they felt entitled to a free pass.
You hear a lot of yippy yapping about the hidden job market.
My current and last position were both sourced through the job board of the local chapter of SHRM. The one before that through a traditional newspaper ad.
I got my current position by being the right candidate who was also in the right place at the right time. I’d worked for my company as a contractor for several years in a few different roles, and the team where I was working had an opening for a permanent position when someone resigned. It was posted (externally on the company’s website), I interviewed for it, and was given the position.
I found my first contract gig years ago through an online posting on one the local newspaper’s job sites, which used to be pretty good but has gone downhill in recent years.
At least at my company, there’s no such thing as “hidden” jobs, unless you count internal postings (which I guess would be hidden for the general public). Unless it’s a very high-level leadership position, every open job gets posted either internally or externally.
I found my current position on careerbuilder. The post directed me to the company website. I was one of 17 candidates forwarded to the hiring manager. I don’t know how many were held back, but judging by the resumes, I would say that she passed everything through (little to no HR experience in the pile.) We are rural and 40 minutes from major-metro, so 17 is actually a good pool for a management position.
I got in at my last position through a job fair. Yes, an honest to god job fair. That, as most job placements are, was just a matter of timing. They had a new position come open just before the fair that wasn’t advertised yet.
Given the number of people being f***ed by the corporates, turning the tables might not be such a bad thing…..
Just remember to record it…..
We fill about 1 in 6 jobs off the job boards, sweet spot is semi skilled hourly to junior mgmt…So if your in our sweet spot your probably getting a look. We also fill 1 or 2 specialized job annually off niche sites (example SHRM site if I have an HR opening, etc). 40% of executive positions are referrals…so who you know is definetley as important as what you know…My advice don’t rule anything out, but don’t count on a job board for a big job either…put your eggs in all baskets, but concentrate on a network…
M
Quick note: I’m at the HR Tech conference so I wanted to post a very tongue-in-cheek blog post. I’ve written about this myriad times: you don’t get jobs through job boards (usually). You get jobs through people you know. That being said, job boards don’t hurt if you use them properly. If used unwisely, though, job boards can’t negatively impact your personal search engine optimization (SEO) and degrade your brand. So if you want to use job boards as a component of your search, check out Cincy Recruiter’s blog and Cluewagon’s blog for starters. I’ll throw up old links on how to improve your chancees of finding a job — once I have better internet connection.
Also, being likable (per HRPufnStuff) and being good looking (per Penelope Trunk) also improves your chances of finding a job. You can’t quantify looks & personality in an ATS system.
My experience with job boards is- the more “purple squirrel” it is? the more “I can learn that real easy” resumes you get– and you can spend hours going through these resumes. There must have been some window of time in history that companies actually hired candidates with great potential in learning an important job skills overnight?? Not in my lifetime!
I remember, back in the day, I wanted to work at Conde Naste Publications– but I knew just cold calling the HR dept., or sending my resume wouldn’t work– I’d be a drop in the preverbial bucket with everyone and thier brother calling daily. So I devised a master plan to pretend I was an Arts Organization doing research on publications such as Architectural Digest, Vogue, etc. I was immediately patched through to the Art Dir.– was friendly and became familiar with the whole department. (No positions available immediately, I found out, secretly of course-) but I called back a year later, the Art Dir. recognized me, told me there was a position available — and I got it! You have to be creative to do an “end-around”, or to flank your opponent— you can’t just sit there and wonder why jobs aren’t being handed to you, being such a super genius that you are and all!!
Have been hit on for money and positions— never took anyone up on thier offer. Just not into dudes, dude!
At my agency, we closely track the sources of our applicants (i.e., referrals, Monster, Craigslist, through our company site, from a career center, etc.) and have found that referrals are our best source of applicants. “Best”= these are often the candidates whom we present to clients and we have the best luck placing either in a temporary or FTE. But we are very open to all sources of candidates…we make money by placing the right person in the job, no matter where s/he came from!
You’ve responded to 100 postings? Since when? I regularly track what jobs are “out there” in our area and frankly, there aren’t 100 postings for the average, focused seeker to apply for at the moment. There are candidates that apply for anything and everything, and they regularly get placed in the “no” pile because they obviously didn’t read the job information! We even have clients who have blacklisted individuals who insist on applying for every open position posted…they’ve officially annoyed the hiring person AND shown lack of judgement.
Because we are in the worst market in decades, job seekers need to vary the tools they use! In succession with scanning job boards, they need to keep in touch with colleagues/former co-workers and ask for leads, be on LinkedIn and contribute to groups in their area of expertise, attend networking functions, create a list of targeted companies to send their resueme and obtain informational interviews. It also doesn’t hurt to create a blog and share his/her experiences in regards to conducting a search. All of these suggestions take time and energy, but yield higher quality results (vs. clicking on the “apply here” button from the comfort of one’s own home).
Good luck!
Hi Mattymatt and Abby…thanks for your additions to the conversation. I was beginning to feel defensive about the skepticism around the hidden job market (yippy yap, indeed). MattyMatt: LOVED your story! Like you I would have loved to have worked at Conde Nast during my sojourn in New York City as a fresh college grad. But instead I ended up working at The Cousteau Society. How I found my job? I happened to run into the office manager in the ladies room. I was in my scanties, trying on a new dress (or at least in the process of). And we struck up a conversation. Now that’s what I call the hidden job market!
Come to think of it, when I applied for a job at SHRM national (back when it was ASPA), it was also through the hidden job market. A friend of a friend kind of thing.
So…as I said before, don’t neglect the job boards (and kudos to all of you who found your jobs that way!) but don’t be too quick to dismiss the hidden job market. Yes indeedy it does exist. Whatever the percentage may be. Dismiss it as a myth and you’re cutting out a valuable source of wonderful job opportunities.
I received the interview based on my previous working relationship with the department Director. I had previously applied online through the ATS for the position only to recieve a ding email after my resume and credentials were reviewed. Not sure what they thought they were looking for before the good word was put in, but it’s 2 years later and I am one of the strongest recruiters on the team with the performance review to prove it.
More and more, it’s all in who you know.
@Martha, I do agree wholeheartedly that the hidden job market exists, I just don’t think it’s as robust as those who write books like to say. No one would buy a job-search book that said, “most jobs are found by applying to job boards”!
You are absolutely right, though — no one should dismiss ANY avenue to a job in this, or any job market. (well, except for the “play for pay” option!)
My last two jobs have come via being sourced on LinkedIn. I was a classic passive candidate. Resume was up to date and out in public but I wasn’t actively looking. Job before that came as a result of being sourced in Monster. I was unemployed at the time but hadn’t directly applied to that company. Jobs before that came by sending in a resume and cover letter in response to a newspaper ad.
I’m fairly certain that in my case sleeping with someone would have the opposite effect on my job prospects. Best case scenario would be a low-ball offer (pun intended).
Most of the jobs that I’ve had, I’ve gotten via newspaper ads (eep, dating myself there, I think!) or job boards (both applying to postings and from employers responding to my resume that was posted). Only 2 of my previous jobs have been a result of “who I know.” One of them lasted only 1 month. Hm. Maybe “who I know” doesn’t know me very well!
I think the best tactic is to use all resources available to you. Apply to jobs online, post your resume everywhere, talk to people, network, blee blah. DO IT ALL. Put in the time and effort. When I moved to San Diego almost 4 years ago, I didn’t have a job lined up. I woke up early and spent my entire day looking for and applying to jobs. You can’t just apply to 2 or 3 postings and think that’s going to work. I was applying to at least 20 jobs PER DAY.
And that was when the economy was still decent.
i got my current job through Craig’s List — yes, Craig’s List. and no, i’m not getting paid to sleep with anybody (my job is in the tech world). actually i think what helped me stand out was creating a video about why i wanted the job with concrete anecdotes about my job history, why i was qualified, would be great, etc etc. i also believe pretty firmly, based on a period of time when i was hiring at a previous job, that it’s almost impossible to be too enthusiastic about a job or show you want it bad enough. so that’s what i did.
@Martha Finney Yeah– it was fun working at Architectural Digest. Unfortunately, the Art Director got into some political trouble with a new VP, and was either let go or quit– still don’t know— but half the department had to leave with him. Fun times— and that magazine was so EASY to put together too!! I was bored half the day—
I don’t recommend sleeping with anyone at my company in order to get hired. No job is worth that. I wish I had male coworkers I’d be tempted to sexually harass (if only in my mind, of course).
We have no hidden jobs at our company. We post all our job ads on Craigslist and have made about 70% of hires from that, the rest through referrals. Just depends on your industry, I suppose. And region, too. I know some areas of the country get huge recruiting mileage out of Craigslist, some don’t.
But you need to network the crap out of whatever professional organization you can join. Every kind of job has an association these days, so get on that.
I got my last two jobs through a job board. And one of those was WITH a job board.
Job boards can have all the value-added services in the world (including resume services and *ahem* blogs) but I think when all is said and done we need to remember that the job boards are simply electronic versions of the ol’ classified section of the paper.
Too many people assume that job boards are a big magic wand, or that you only need to use one. But you really have to compete at every level, in every possible space that you can.
And knowing about the opportunity is only part of the battle – connections count (I may have applied to my new job via a job board, but I clinched the interview b/c of a connection).
I don’t think the major job boards are necessarily theBermuda Triangle of resumes, as GG seems to be worried about. But take the fact that they’re so widely used nationally and regionally, and factor in our insane economy….and companies are bombarded with resumes. Including a lot of crap. (A few co’s that I applied to volunteered how many other applications they’d recieved. A simple administrative position got SEVEN HUNDRED replies. A writing position I applied for? Over 200. Insane.)
So it probably takes more to clear the fencepost and cut through all the noise and interference.
OMG, you guys managed this conversation nicely while I was at the HR Tech Conference. You don’t even want to know what crazy search terms are now leading people to my blog.
See you guys in the morning!
What kind of job can I get for just making out?
I ran a recruiting function for a large engineering firm. While the hirining managers would rather not use the job board because they would prefer to hire a referral, we often don’t have the luxury of candidates walking in – we encourage all applicants to post their resume on line through our website career page.
While most people are hired this way, the best source of candidates is from employee referrals – which are sent to the career page and by which people can cite the name of the person who referred them.
GG, maybe you should consider polishing your online resume and cover letter. Try to check if there are something that needs tweaking.
you mainly create on line resume process and forget about off line process