I’m weighing in on the David Letterman controversy as a Human Resources professional who has slept with co-workers — and married one.
- I think sex at work is okay.
You don’t have to have sex with an employee to screw her. If you use your position of authority to benefit your personal needs at the expense of the company or other colleagues, you are an asshole and you deserved to be fired.
I’m not sure Letterman’s behaviors crossed the threshold and falls into the category of sexual harassment. He’s a horny old man who messed around with coworkers. Every office has that guy. Sometimes it’s the boss.
Meghan Casserly thinks this Letterman situation is no big deal. Linda Lowen disagrees. What do you think?
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If even one of those women felt pressured either to sleep with the boss or to pretend it’s no big deal, then that’s a Very Bad Thing.
If, on the other hand, those women are like, “ha! slept with famous dude! score one for me!” (of course being professionals, they won’t SAY it that way) then it’s not an issue.
Since no one has ever filed a complaint against him (by neither former nor present employees) I have to assume the sex was not a problem for the women involved.
His fame, power & position were most likely a powerful aphrodisiac for the women but it doesn’t seem as if he used it as leverage for their advancement. If new information reveals that is not the case…..then he’s pathetic and definitely should lose his job.
As far as I’m concerned it should only be a big deal to his wife. How much fun it must be to be married to a cheater not to mention unhealthy.
I am sure that Dave and the women will claim that the sex was consensual, so that means it wasn’t sexual harassment…to Dave.
The point is that Dave’s behavior is not appropriate in the workplace. It puts his employer in the position of having to defend him, should any of his conquests decide at some point that he pressured them, or promised them opportunities in return for sex.
I believe his behavior crosses every threshold of ethical behavior, and if this had been an executive in one of my organizations, I believe that disciplinary actions would ensue.
Disclaimer: I haven’t read all the media on this (and probably won’t) so take my opinion for what it’s worth. While I don’t think we can always assume that male boss sleeping with female subordinate = sexual harassment, it is a double-whammy on the power meter. Dave had more power than the women he slept with as 1) a male and 2) the boss. IMO, it’s incumbent upon those with power to take care to not misuse it…meaning you have to always be aware that you have power and not act like it’s not a factor in your getting what you want. It always is, whether you’re intentionally using it or not.
Bottom line: Stupidity on the part of David Letterman, even if not malice.
DMcB
This gets into the hold treating people like children thing. We’re adults. There is nothing wrong with consensual sex between adults. Note I left out “single”. If dude wants to have sex with women other than his wife, that’s his choice to make, not mine. But, saying people that work together can’t get it on, is stupid. Having sex with another person isn’t the problem, acting like an ass after the fact is. Deal with the real problem, then you are doing your job.
It’s a Big Deal.
First of all, there was probably a lot more sex than he’s copping to. Why? Because he only confessed when he had to, and to the multiples for which there WAS proof. What are the chances that someone was able to take photos (or whatever the definitive “proof” was) EVERY time?
Second: marriage shmarriage– if sex in general is no big deal, and if sex with colleagues (though these weren’t COLLEAGUES) is no big deal, I am not quite sure how sex suddenly becomes a HUGE deal just because a person is married? And let’s not forget that Letterman has been “with” his wife and mother of his child since 1986… NOT “last March.”
Finally, and perhaps most damningly — David Letterman OWNS World Wide Pants. Right? That means he was the boss. And not just ANY boss, but a larger-than-life, celebrity boss, which translates in America to Royalty. To my mind, there is no way that there could ever have been equitable, mutually-consenting, power-sharing sexual relationships between this man and any one who worked for him. (just as Roman Polanski’s rape of a 13-yr-old girl doesn’t “go away” no matter how much his victim now insists she forgives him.)
I think SherryC has the right approach here.
The question is surely one of coercion. If he has used his fame and authority to coerce women into sexual encounters and/or to ensure they do not disclosed aforementioned encounters then this is wrong.
If this is consensual sex, where he gets his leg over and she(s) get what she(s) wants then I think we need to treat people as being free to choose their own behaviour and therefore free to accept the consequences.
There seems to be an assumption that the women cannot have wanted to have behaved in this way and must have done this for some ulterior motive. That in itself seems to me to be somewhat sexist and desexualising for women. Surely they only sleep with people to get a job/baby/social housing? The thought that they might just do it for enjoyment……?
That said, personally, the only thing that would get me to sleep with my boss would end in 6 zeros and be accompanied by a shot of valium.
Workers are adults. As long as everyone is an adult in the situation and makes their own decisions without being pressured…I think it’s no big deal. After all in today’s world, we spend an awful lot of time at work and I know plenty of long-time marriages that started under cover at work in defiance of HR policy.
Finally, I like the way he handled it. I was a PR major in college – and I think he’s done a lot of the talking right. He’s not relishing the fact he slept with co-workers, he’s not bragging and he’s certainly not naming names. And none of them are pointing fingers either. I think it’s a success story.
Here’s my mantra on sex and coworkers: Don’t shit where you eat!
The truth is that you’re not working for fun. You’re working so you can pay the bills and enjoy your life away from work. As soon as you engage in any type work place relationship, you put your job at risk. I’ve seen countless occasions where a disgruntled ex claims sexual harassment against their former trist just to get revenge. Yeah they may not be guilty, but they’ve now been labeled as a harassment risk to the HR department.
The risk is to great. Unless you look at a co-worker and think to yourself “Yeah, I’d be willing to get fired to tap that,” you should walk away.
A little tougher at my workplace – a liberal arts college. We’ve gotten to the point here that we have adopted a consensual relationship policy, that basically forbids any sexual relationship between a student and a faculty member, regardless of whether they are in one’s class or not. Similarly, our college strongly discourages consensual romantic and/or sexual relationships between employees where a power differential exists.
Further, if a consensual relationship does develop where a power differential exists, it should be reported.
While I feel the heart wants what the heart wants, and relationships are inevitable given the considerable time employees spend together, it is what the organization does in the event of such a relationship developing that is just as important. What is CBS’ policy for these type of relationships?
There’s no innocent “victims” — consentual sex between adults. If I was “The Boss” and had (assumably) doe-eyed women wanting sex with me? Are you kidding me??? I’d be calling in sick Monday’s AND Tuesdays!!
The cheating?? Sounds Like the owner of World Wide Pants is wearing the pants on that one— unless we hear of a divorce in the near future. What’s the moral question on an “open” marriage?? I don’t think there is one.
I’m just curious if everyone’s opinion would be the same if this was a fact situation presented to you as an HR professional, without names attached:
You’re the HR Director for a private company. You’re told the owner is regularly and routinely bedding down employees 30 years his junior at the workplace, during work hours. Many people in the company are aware of it, but since he is very powerful in his industry, no one does anything about it. The media has caught wind of it. Now what do you do?
I just have a hard time thinking that my response would be “we’re just a whole lot of consenting adults around here”.
Who owns CBS- Viacom, right? Do you think he’ll have to go through harassment training now? At a minimum he looks like a tool now and will probably lose some viewer share in the short-term, which is bad business for CBS.
@SherryC Looks like he paid for law school for his assistant. Win/Win, except she had to sleep with Letterman. (Yuck.)
@Libby I know where you’re coming from, and in a normal organization, I totally agree with you. Letterman violates workplace conduct rules for schtupping his employees. I do think back on Michael from Intuit’s statement on your panel: employees bring their lives to work. Our mere existence puts the corporation at risk, and HR can’t possibly mitigate all employee litigation. So what do we do? The answer multi-pronged: ask employees to act like adults, ask for full disclosure of relationships, and ask for *smart* tort reform and raise the threshold higher for lawsuits. I want to throw something out there: what if Letterman disclosed these relationships and what if CBS said it was okay? What if they wanted to keep their talented employee happy? I think about the CEOs and CFOs I knew who were f–king around with employees, and the board always knew. ALWAYS. They did the math and were willing to take a risk.
@Fran I’m not sure how long Letterman has been married. I think it’s recent, right? These affairs seem like they happened awhile ago.
@Dee Thanks!
@HRPuf If you can’t get it on with the people you work with, how do you date while being fully employed and work 60 hours/week?
@Almost I’m not sure sex is suddenly a big deal because Letterman is married. Did someone say that? I’m almost 99.9% sure that CBS knew of these relationships (although they’d never admit to it). I’ve worked with boards and C-level individuals and these behaviors are old hat. It’s unfortunate but true. What pushed this into the limelight was the extortion and threat to Letterman’s son. That’s one reason NOT to screw around at work. You never know who’s insane.
@TheHRD I think you bring up an interesting point. Power happens. Even in the most egalitarian marriages, someone kisses and someone gets kissed. We can deal with it in the microcosm of our lives but we have a difficult time talking about power when it’s bigger (Letterman) and involves bigger things (like power at work).
@LeanneCLC I hope this doesn’t get any bigger because it would be a shame. I don’t want to know about Letterman’s sex life. I mean, seriously, yuck.
@HRPuter You work for money and to accomplish goals, yes, but you’re not working 100% of the day. And no one really owns you or your time, especially the corporation.
@akaBruno I’m not sure the heart wants what the heart wants — or if it’s a chemical/biological thing.
In any event, I think our workplace conduct policies are written to mitigate lawsuits that should never happen in the first place. So I place some of the blame on employees who force corporations to act like parents. It’s lame. We can’t ask employers to stop treating us like babies if we act like babies as employees.
@MattyMat So I’m not sure what you’re saying. Is it okay or not?
@ScottS I think we’re missing the point that Letterman was personally extorted in this situation — and that’s the real offensive part of the story. CBS is irrelevant in this situation. Some guy threatened Letterman’s son.
@icanhaslinda I’m sure Sumner Redstone knows a thing or two about violating workplace conduct policies.
There are so many layers to it:
1. I think we all agree that Letterman did was morally wrong, but it’s none of our business and if you have money and power, I understand why you want to go out with the guy.
2. Letterman started his show (it was in the morning first in the late 70s) with GIRLFRIEND Merrill Markoe. Would people believe that’s weird? If people have no qualms in the staff now and had no problems back in the 70s, why is this brought up? As far as I know, Letterman’s working environment is fun and loose and has a great track record (Chris Eliott, Rob Burnett, Bonnie Hunt, the guy who created Monk) and was great among employees.
3. My friend, Bill Lehecka, told me this extortion case is based on Palingate where the news producer was working with Palin or someone associated with Palin wanted the dirt on Letterman and the producer thinks him having affairs with others will sink him to the bottom of the barrow.
4. I really think Letterman oversold himself here. I know he flirted with Stephanie Birkett a lot on air and that is where my guess why the producer got the idea to extort Dave. I think Dave wanted to get ahead of the curve and be done with it.
5. I totally agree that sex in the workplace is not bad and agree that if you’re using it for advancement or power, you’re going to get fired, but if you are doing your “business” in the office, make sure is cleaned up and there is no “stuff” when you’re returning a report or form and be smooth about it.
Overall, it’s how the person uses his/her power among within their company. As far as I know, Dave is horny, but has great relationships with people and employees. Isn’t that important?
@ICANHASLINDA no because Letterman own his company, Worldwide Pants, and CBS is a partner/provider of Letterman’s shows, which includes Craig Ferguson. So, no he’s not relegated to sexual harassment training.
@Laurie–I agree the extortion is the horrible thing now. But if someone would have done something about the situation when it was out of control, it would never would have gotten to that point. Workplace violence is another HR problem. I agree that the threats to his family are horrible, but if the guy had decided to come in and shoot up the place, it would have been a whole different ballgame.
Honestly, I think it’s A-OK!! As long as there’s consenting adults involved. Alot of people are having opinions that represent David Letterman as some kind of “sheik” ordering his “harem” to have sex with him or else— which I think is farther from the truth. My take on DL is that if a woman said No– he would walk away— unless there’s evidence supporting otherwise.
I don’t agree with the “cheating” part— but if DL’s organized his marriage as being “open”, is that cheating? and therefore moral or immoral?? I don’t know, IMHO.
I tend to agree with the whole consenting adults take on it, I married my boss, who I was sleeping with, while we worked together. I understood the potential risk and made my choices. I was also 20.
I do think Scott S. makes a good point. My answer, assuming I work for the owner and he is my boss (and I haven’t been sleeping with him) is to defer to PR. ‘Cause he/she is the owner and I’m HR. It would appear that the only legal issue here is the extortion – no one has claimed harassment and while the behavior is certainly not desirable from an HR perspective, so far none of the parties involved in those romps has a problem with the actual act.
Consenting sex between adult co-workers is not the worst thing I can think of. Discretion people, discretion. Don’t do the nasty at your place of work and understand that when you participate in such behavior you assume some risk. If your the owner, well, look at what happened to Dave.
The good news about sex in the workplace: they’ll always need HR to help clean up after things go south.
Wait, that didn’t sound right.
Put me in the “sex at work is not okay” category.
I’ve been reading message boards at Gawker and other sites and there seems to be a feminist angle to this story — e.g., these women weren’t victims of sexual harassment, they’re grown women who can make up their own minds whether to have a relationship with the boss.
What bothers me, however, is the potential impact on the other employees who worked alongside these women at Worldwide Pants. Co-workers and interns aren’t stupid; they figure this stuff out pretty quickly. No one appears to have complained about what was going on as far as we know, but how many employees left “The Late Show” because of perceived favoritism, etc. without saying why they really left?
http://workplacediva.blogspot.com
My last comment: There is a big difference between “sex at work” and “sex during work”. I have no problem with consenting adults doing whatever they want to do with whom or whatever they want to do it with. On their own time. I would think we in HR would have some interest in what goes on in the workplace during work hours.
I wonder if there were any women who rejected his advances and subsequently were not promoted or even let go? Those women have been sexually harrassed because they would not go along with his advances. They have ligitimate legal actions to take against Letterman and the network.
I wonder if the celeberties who had been going on his show will want to associate themselves with him? I know I’d go to Conan and Leno just to aviod the whole mess.
@Tracy I think you need to take these awesome comments and make them into a blogpost so the other members of our HR community can read them & weigh in.
@Jackbuilt LOL, your story is familiar.
Here’s what I don’t understand: we ask employees to bring their hearts & their minds & their passions to work and yet we have a culture of risk mitigation that demands they leave their libidos at home. You can be a horny guy AND be a great boss, coworker, marketing professional, etc. When we ask employees to give 110% and yet we demand they leave 50% of their personalities at home, we breed dysfunctional work environments.
@ScottS SO I wonder, was the Letterman situation ever out of control? Is one relationship ONE TOO MANY? I dunno. I see your points, all valid, but I’m still prone to err on the side of letting people fuck around if there’s no major disruption in the workplace.
@FrannyO We’ll always have jobs. True dat.
@ChrisP I totally get the third-wave feminist take. Seriously. I do. I would ask: if things were so bad with other employees and if employee animosity was so high, wouldn’t they be hemorrhaging talent? I know it seems very flip to tell people to quit their jobs, but my message is clear: if you work in an environment that doesn’t gibe with your personal values, quit.
@ScottS Sex during work with coworkers = bad. You’re not being paid to fuck anyone except your customers, clients, and competition.
@itgel I agree that Letterman’s actions now prompt women to look back and ask those questions about their careers. That’s the inherent risk in these workplace behaviors, and I acknowledge those risks. I still have a little HR person left in me. PS — Letterman will probably have his *friends* on the show, if he has any left.
As long as the sex was consensual the ONLY big deal is that he has made a career out of mocking others who were caught with their *ahem* out. Other than that, it’s between him and his wife.
I just received this email message.
Dear Laurie, You most likely know about the recent workplace scandal surrounding one of America’s favorite late night hosts: David Letterman. While the specifics of Mr. Letterman’s case are certainly out of the ordinary, the larger issue of romance and elicit relations in the workplace is commonplace. We would love to put you in touch with the chairman, CEO and president of Dale Carnegie Training, Peter Handal, who has several great tips for both employees and managers on how to handle romance in the workplace. Please see below for some advice from Peter Handal.
We look forward to hearing from you,
Jodi
Workplace Romance Etiquette From Dale Carnegie Training
§ Check the company’s policies. Before launching into an office romance, be clear on the company’s policies regarding office relationships. Many companies –large and small– have hard and fast rules against relationships developing amongst co-workers. If it is against the rules, you have to ask yourself: “Is it worth it?” And, if it is, be discreet and prepare for any consequences.
§ Maintain decorum and professionalism. It’s a good practice to keep your social and business lives separate and that means not letting a romantic relationship affect the quality and efficiency of your work. When it’s an office romance, the stakes are even higher. If there’s evidence that an office romance is affecting work, one or both of you may be asked to end your romance or, worse yet, find another job.
§ Avoid dating someone in a higher or lower position. Office politics and hierarchy should be top-of-mind, particularly when it comes to office romances. Choosing an entanglement with a co-worker – especially one at a different seniority level – could dramatically affect your salary or movement within your company. Avoid unwanted scrutiny and drama by avoiding dating those with whom you regularly work.
§ Save the romance for out of the office. Absolutely no public displays of affection at work. Maintain proper distance and save the romantic acts for locations that are not often visited by co-workers.
§ Address issues after-hours. Never, have or bring fights or arguments to work. Any personal disagreements should be dealt with outside the office.
§ Plan for the worst. Agree in the beginning of the relationship how you will handle a potential break up. Avoid, at all costs, a messy break up. It isn’t just you and your partner that are involved, it’s your entire office and the future of the company’s dating policy.
§ Consider leaving. If the relationship does get serious, one member should consider a new position outside the company.
Jodi Einhorn | LAFORCE + STEVENS
@Angela That’s true. He has made a career out of it. Life is so humbling, isn’t it?
I haven’t read all the coverage of this either.. because I don’t care. IMO- If no one has complained before now, why is it a big deal? Why isn’t the big deal that this other woman who works for CBS tried to BLACKMAIL him about it? And, for all anyone knows, he may have an open relationship with his wife.
Seems to me that all relationships have a shifting power balance. I agree with Laurie that someone kisses and someone gets kissed and that who does what is constantly changing. It doesn’t matter that these women worked for him. If he was an ass and treated his employees like shit, they would’ve quit and it would’ve came out a long time ago.
Also, why is everyone assuming that Dave is the one with the power here? Seems to me that he wanted the younger women… He wanted it but they had to be the one to decide to give in… Sounds like the power was in their hands, not his.
Hey, it worked out for Bill & Melinda, right?
I think it’s absolutely fine among co-workers of similar levels in the organizations or between a supervisor and a non-direct report. People spend most of their waking hours working. Where else are they supposed to meet people? I think that No Dating policies among peer employees are complete bollocks, provided it’s not impacting the workplace.
That said, I’ve only seen this end badly in my own experience. I recall a much hated HR Director who slept with the CFO in an archaic company in which HR made final pay decisions, and she just thought it was humorous to work all her associated advantages in that company. But then the new CEO fired her ass…and she was replaced by a less-evil but equally incompetent HR Director.
And we wonder why people hate HR.
I’ll issue a blanket NOT okay between a manager and his/her employees, at whatever level that manager may be. Liability issue aside, even if there’s no coercion, the perception of favoritism is soooooo damaging among the other employees. Frankly, I just don’t have that much faith in any boss types that they wouldn’t show favoritism to the one they were sleeping with (or be aware enough that perceptions matter).
Maybe David Letterman is an awesome boss and people didn’t care who he was boinking and didn’t feel at a disadvantage pay/opportunity-wise. But I have a real hard time believing that the majority of employees at most companies wouldn’t feel disadvantaged by the boss dipping the pen in the company ink. Discretion is really a moot point because somebody ALWAYS knows when something jiggy is going on.
And I bet you anything that there would be a complete double-standard in the world at large if the boss were a woman and she were getting action from her male subordinates.
YAY!
I’m so glad he did have sex at work and it all came out. This is so much more exciting to talk about than COBRA, FLSA, FMLA, and ADA all wrapped into one burrito.
I think this is my favorite comment: “Discretion is really a moot point because somebody ALWAYS knows when something jiggy is going on.”
I love HR. I love this blog. I love this post.
Two things:
1. What if you are not the one sleeping with the boss? Don’t you get ticked off at the possibility that the one who is sleeping with the boss gets special treatment? It bugged me that some people golfed or went to strip clubs with the boss when I was working. I was not invited to either activity (not that I wanted to go) and was cut out of the schmoozing loop.
2. There is nothing wrong with working with someone you date, it is working with someone you used to date.
Oh— you’re talking about having sex “at work”??
Ewwwwww….
You know the guy analogy while having sex “Think about baseball, think about baseball…” Mine is “Think about work…. think about work…. ” I can go all night, sister—
Extortion was the crime but that doesn’t let him off the hook. If he seriously exchanged sexual relationships for something (tuition, promotion, pay, whatever…) that is the part the grosses me out. I don’t care about sexual relationships in the workplace, I care about them bringing it to work and disrupting the environment.
Who knows what the talent situation looks like at WWP? I think there is really only hearsay at this point.
And yes, this happens all of the time in corporate America. The problem for his production company is that it usually isn’t publicized, the person never admits anything and they make a confidential settlement.
My guess is he’ll keep his job. Because top talent always does.
A wise person once said to me — “don’t your honey where you get your money.” Colloquialisms rule.
I kind of support disclose and release hanky panky policies. We’re all grown folks — who work in HR — who don’t know either of the parties personally. But we’ve published now 35 comments on the subject. What you’re doing in your bedroom is your own business until someone else knows the person whose hanky has come into contact with your panky. Then it’s gossip. Juicy gossip. DISTRACTING gossip. I realize that we’re all discussing it because it’s Letterman and we’re all HR buddies here who can talk about about this amongst ourselves. But whether the CEO is schtupping his secretary or the best salesperson on the team is getting it on with some schmoe in accounting; our co-workers are gonna want to talk about it. 9 times out of 10 that’s gonna end up hostile… even if no one actually ever complains. Disclose the relationship. If it works, congratulations! I’m sure Hallmark and DeBeers are thrilled. If it doesn’t, tell it to LexaPro and the EAP. But you both made it officially not my problem when you signed the form.
@Teresa Oh snap, that’s an interesting thought on who holds power. I need to think about this, but you’re right. It’s possible that those women held power that we’re not addressing. INTERESTING!!
@H.Aria Exactly. Works for plenty of people. There are tons of corporate couples in America. Sex and romance and marriage happen despite the best HR policies to stop it.
PS – I totally want to have an affair with my staff. Right now, I don’t have staff. But one day… dare I dream…
@Really OMG, I’m blushing. Thank you.
@Class I could never work with someone I used to date. That would be strange and uncomfortable.
@Lance All reasonable points, of course, but I’m still pretty sure that the media wants this to be a different kind of story than it really is… which is sad, sorta. Why does everything have to be a sex scandal? Isn’t extortion enough?
@Scott It doesn’t have to end up hostile. Sometimes you marry the guy. (ahem, i know this)
Sorrry I am an emmbittered old man but I did leave room for 10% to succeed! That’s something. Right. Right????
Hellooooo, he’s a married man! Gathering from his comments on his shows they do not have an open marriage. This is not a victimless act. Shame on him and the women he slept with.
“He’s a horny old man who messed around with coworkers. Every office has that guy. Sometimes it’s the boss.”
This is the essence of the problem…you say it is OK for this to happen…you say it is normal and happens everywhere…you claim to be a ‘punk rock’ HR person (whatever)…yet you support the status quo…men using their position of power to satisfy their caveman urges…Just imagine how you and everybody else would react if Dave was a woman in power…stupid monkeys teaching monkeys…our culture of domination is ridiculous!
Dale Carnegie Training said this? “Check the company’s policies. Before launching into an office romance, be clear on the company’s policies regarding office relationships. Many companies –large and small– have hard and fast rules against relationships developing amongst co-workers. If it is against the rules, you have to ask yourself: “Is it worth it?” And, if it is, be discreet and prepare for any consequences.”
Did I read it properly? Companies might tell you that you can’t have a relationship with someone you work with?? What decade are we in exactly? How can they possibly add contract clauses about who you can / can’t fancy, go to bed with etc. You sign a contract for work, not for your free time.
Full disclosure: I’m not American, and where I live, the president of the country gets extra kudos and admiration because as a 70+ year old he can still get it up with 20 something starlets and 40 something escorts… Americans practically invented the casting couch – no point being prudish about it.
@Darla Uh, yeah. I don’t agree with that part because he wasn’t married when the affair with his assistant took place — and even if he was married, it’s his business. I’m not his mom.
@Johnny I don’t support the status quo. I’ve often said, “If you work for someone who sexually harasses you, quit.” F–k the status quo. I just think there’s a bit of Puritanism being applied to this situation.
@Clare Honest to god, Dale Carnegie. I know. It seems crazy, but I wanted to publish the email message. Maybe someone will make a great connection and learn from it.
I have never understood why sex with coworkers was not okay. The most successful casual relationships I’ve had (as in completely drama free after the fact) were all with coworkers.
I think that people need to stop pretending like co-workers don’t sleep together. My husband and I work together (and did before we got married) and people act like we aren’t married. Like they don’t assume we sleep in the same bed every night. It really isn’t that big of a deal. There are about 15 couples that also work at my company, and it is treated like a total taboo when they talk about eachother. G-R-O-W U-P people.
As long as the relationship is consentual—and one person’s job doesn’t depend on the relationship—I think people need to stop acting like having a relationship with a co-worker is weird or wrong. Most people spend the majority of their time at work—where the hell else are they going to meet somebody???
Just skimmed thru all of this. Hate to sound puritanical, but…
I have worked in hostile work environments–it is real. I was once demoted and castigated as homophobic because I objected to a workplace culture where the power structure was built around very loose lesbian relationships, and favors were granted to who was close to who at any given time (it changed moment to moment). I objected to the loose boundaries, not orientation or lifestyle, but was castigated nonetheless.
I also was once “laid off” because I objected to a non-Christian based agency’s compulsory training for a Christian based counseling program. I effectively used the EEOC to resolve that one.
If adults would act like adults, and didn’t get off on the scandal and illicitness of their dalliances, then there would be no problems with workplace relationships. But adults don’t act like adults most of the time.
If people would respect the rights of others naturally, we wouldn’t need all these rules and HR guidelines. But people often don’t respect others if it isn’t forced upon them in ridiculous was.
The world of work is not for weenies, that is for sure. But people should not have to put up with stupid crap either. We have to have some way to keep people in check.
BTW–It isn’t just about rich famous people. My career has been in non-profit social service agencies.
If the woman have not come forward before this then its between them and him and we should let it play out in the court.
And no one has the right to try and get money from someone just because they had sex with someone they liked?
Sorry, but when you say you are a human resources “professional” and then go on to say you are ok with sex at work, well that is an oxymoron.
Letterman was above, over those in the positions he had sex with. He used his power and authority to his advantage. He is a PIG and should be fired.
He and those that defend him are pathetic.
equal? no way! Rules must be put in place to protect women. Well maybe they shouldn’t be in the work force.
1) because someones always holding a gun to their heads if they..the women don’t do what they ask
2)they are never to blame for anything .. because they are victims.
3) they can’t seem to stand up for themselves. he made me do it, he was my boss, I didn’t want to lose my job.. hog wash.
4) if a man said that because he was your boss , he would take your kids from you.. you’d say go to hell, and to hell with your job.
Not acceptable. When the boss is having a sexual relationship with a subordinate its a very tenuous situation for both – particularly the subordinate. It gives absolute power to the boss. Why women do this is beyond me.
Could Letterman not find woman outside the work place? Why do it with someone at work? He’s a pig!
Look everytime a person who is in the spot light,get hung by the media. What he does in his own public life is his business. He was being black mailed, and decided to cut this guy down by telling on his show what went down and he was trying to get two million dollars as hush money. Good for David that he exposed this guy for what he is, a slum bag,no good evil man.
Does he have say in their pay, bonus, inderectly by staffer, or directly, he’s screwed.. DON’T FISH OFF THE COMPANY PEIR, WANT GET THIS IN MONOLOGE,,
Oh sure, sleeping around in thw workplace is fine AS LONG AS IT’S NOT WHERE YOU WORK. I think most companies have rules about dating etc. your co-workers, not to mention your superiors. It’s usually a no-no due to the obvious legal perils for the company from disgruntled ex-lovers, plus it makes the workplace rather tense and unpleasant for everyone after a break-up. It’s a legal nightmare for the HR department.
Dave is a nasty old fart, cheating on his girlfriend (now wife) for years. That’s the real story here. Hope he has a pre-nup because she should kick his sorry butt to the curb. There’s nothing more unforgiveable than your partner or spouse DELIBERATELY AND SYSTEMATICALLY cheating on you. Time for a herpes/AIDS test for Dave’s poor wife and kid. He should resign. He’s a pig.
Workplace relationships suffer overall, since any interaction with any of the participants is affected. Co-workers can’t do normal work give and take with the woman, other women are affected either directly or indirectly, and accusations of favors are bound to crop up. By paying for her law degree, he favors her outside of the sexual relationship. As a former worker in a large Fortune 50 firm where this type of behavior was the norm, I can tell you that it absolutely destroys the firm from the inside out, since employees are affected, aware, and compensate for the behavior of their bosses, of the “couple” and of the employee who is part of the behavior. By being around the affair, you also become an accessory to it, since you can’t speak out against it, and your silence implies approval or at least acceptance of the behavior.
It is a no win.
Hey I’m a retired professional rock drummer and I must say you guys are killing me. I mean the only way Dave can get laid are with the girls at work, really? That’s fairly lame if you ask me, Dave, um, you’re a pretty well known guy, maybe you need to get out more. Or, now that you’re married, stay home. It’s just sex, if there’s no love it’s only fulfilling a physical need, like blowing your nose. Please don’t try and make me believe that even if it’s consensual it’s still harassment, that kind of reverse logic makes me want to wash up.
Totally Gross. Old White Men, Pink Hairless & Baggy Ass!
How does anyone think a lot of these women get jobs in the TV biz anyway? This one Letterman was with was off with the 48 Hours producer after that, whether it’s the local anchor woman (Yeah I bet she’s the only person who can read a teleprompter) or the staff at the office (yeah they make really good coffee) what does anyone think goes down?
In the “Mad Men” era people were much more open about this stuff. Now days they don’t admit it but it’s still the way. How many MSNBC gals only get on the air because they do the deed for Dan Abrams?
I don’t blame Letterman, unless something comes out that he pressured people. However, people shouldn’t act shocked this happens, the TV business has been like this for years.
I see that everyone has something to say about this, but really people? first remember that he is a victim too in this. For a perosn rich, poor, man, or woman to admit something like that takes courage. and second he is a entertainer! not a elected member of our politics. Saying all of this, i still will watch him and I don’t really care about his personal life.
I feel that most people on here are putting their own
personal spin into Dave’s situation. Nothing that has come out indicates that he was demanding sex of his workers..there was no husband or wife cheated on from the names that have come forward as of yet… in fact the one story I have read from one of the women … he called her after work and asked for a date. That does not sound like a boss who is harassing his fellow employees on the job. I have never seen an office that didn’t have dating going on whether there was a rule or not. The rules only effect how open they are about their relationship. Of course the rules also lend to people getting blackmailed by jealous clowns like in this story.
Why are we as a nation devoting so much time to this story? Every few days, it seems, some lurid story comes out about someone having sex with someone. Who cares? This country has many more serious issues to be concerned about. Why does the media feel it has to give stories like this one so much time and attention? The only person Dave has to reckon with is his wife.
I am a human resources manager with over 10 years experience. I have worked in a number of industries including entertainment. Having experience with sexual harassment issues, I have found that often women are afraid to come forward because they think that they will lose their jobs.
Today, almost all companies (including the entertainment I worked for) have zero tolerance for this behavior.
I sincerely hope that the women involved take the following steps: 1. report this to the EEOC immediately; contact the head of HR for the CBS Corporation, and obtain attorneys. If others were subject to the same circumstances, they should come forward as well. They should also press charges against Letterman and his production company.
Letterman may be famous but he broke the law a few times. But don’t despair….perhaps he will be allowed to continue his show tom jail, although the bars may get in the way. The mad leaves new meaning to the term pond scum.
Since high profile people tend to have more leniencies when it comes to our justice
Shame on you Dave, but you have apologized and are working on repairing the damage to all concerned and have learned a stressful lesson, to not repeat the activities in future.
I hope that tghe judge throws the book at the jerk for his criminal brhavior.
I love your show and intend to remain a fan permanenyly.
You’re as human as any one else and we all make boo boos every now and then and learn to avoid the same in the future. Hang in there Dave and happy future with your wife and your job.
What a silly comment from someone that really needs to lighten up! Really, people – he broke the law? No one EVER dates coworkers or even bosses? And what’s with all the assumptions? None of these women have come forward and complained – even the ones that no longer work for him. The only reason this has come up is because a jealous man thought perhaps he could extort some moolah.
I’m not saying he’s a saint or that what he did was right, but it really should be between Dave and his wife. Thank goodness I’m not famous!
What Dave Letterman did was normal. If he coerce the women or threatened them it’s different. None of these women ever said anything about this. Why make a big thing of it. There is a lot worse going on in this country than a man and a woman having consenting sex.
Once a JERK, always a JERK. His name should be JERKERMAN. He tries to make it seem insignificant by adding jokes to the whole situation. The guy is nothing but a Geek-Dork who got lucky.
With this current economic climate, do you think those women will claim harrassment. What if they lose the case and lose their job. Maybe that’s why they are not coming outright and charging the sexual fiend.
I haven’t read all of the remarks, but to my knowledge, any sexual relationships that David Letterman had with his co-workers was all consensual. I heard nothing about any force or rape being involved. Why is everyone blaming Mr. Letterman; he was a single man at the time and whether he was living with someone else, that was strickly between the two of them. His now wife was also having consensual sex with him so what’s the difference.
He should be fired!!! We can live without his kind of trash.
well – what i think doesn’t matter. It’s all about the women he had sex with think. I am not a “HR Professional” but I have been in management for a few years now and I’ve garnered a couple basic guidelines from the annual SH training we have to do.
There are two basic kinds of sexual harrassment.
hostile work environment and quid pro quo.
if the Women weren’t receptive and Dave’s advances made them uncomfortable – hostile work environment.
If Dave said “if you have sex I will make good things happen because of my position” or “if you don’t have sex with me I will make bad things happen because of my position” – quid pro quo
The question of infedility is not a crime and none of my business.
was sex with the boss a condition of employment, if so its sexual harrassment, if not just inappropriate fun
Letterman should be fired.
The interns were taken advantage of !
Letterman, the employer, should not have sex with his employees.
Just because he is a celebrity, is it okay for him to take advantage of these employees? Even with their consent, it is plain wrong.
There is a pattern of abuse.
In all probability, some of the interns were and are still intimidated to stand up for their rights.
As good human being, we must stand up for these women.
I find it ironic after trashing Sarah Palin and her daughter, this piece of trash was cheating on his wife the whole time. What a piece of crap.
My husband had an affair with his assistant and wrecked a 20+ year old relationship. A woman does not forget… I mean, he went to work everyday and put in late hours and you are sitting at home thinking nothing of such to be happening. I read their emails and that alone practically killed. No, I couldn’t go back and carry on like nothing occurred. The trust is broken and in such cases as it happening at work with people you know can be the worst way of writing off trust. I feel for his wife and child. As for David, he is a selfish man with no regards for anyone but his Mom.
Guess what … who cares … except his wife … who probably has known about his cheating heart all along. She may have threatened to “out” his behavior, so she was able to pressure him into marrying her instead. Go girl … take him for all he is worth, which in my book isn’t much! And this piece of lint is a father … pity the poor kid!
I say all the power to him.
What he does is his choose. Did he hurt my family? nope. You go Dave
You’re missing the point… Laurie. How to you think other employees feel when an employee(s) is sleeping with “the” boss?
Corporate is a very competitive environment. If it’s raise time or a promotion is available or there are layoffs, if an employee(s) is sleeping with “the” boss, how do the other employees overcome the unfair influence and advantage and do not try to tell me or the other employees on this Dope’s show it isn’t so.
Plus, you open your company up to sexual harrassment suits, valid or not…, and oh yes… less I forget… personal & corporate blackmail attempts… and when it goes public… you embarrass your corporate, the employees, your clients… and yourself.
Sorry… Laurie, if you would have been working for my company in the position you held in HR… you and your “friend” would have been toast… I would have broke both your dinner plates. You were a threat to the well-being of your company then… and you still are. One day you will hurt some people and your company badly with your brazen narcissism, arrogance and feelings of entitlement.
David’s a liberal an as such can not be held accountable for infidelity, sexual harassment or anything like that. Liberals by nature are innocent of any moral laxities simple because they don’t claim to ever had any morals.
Funny how ‘what goes around comes around’- He has spent a ‘career’ exposing people from a high horse moral position.
I wonder who can take him seriously now and will he ever be able to ask those difficult moral questions with a straight face knowing very well it could be thrown back in his face.
He has damaged his reputation beyond repair and can now only function by telling silly jokes with no sexual content. How successful
are those kind of jokes really?
He has not only bound his hands and feet but now his MOUTH!?
He got caught-exposed-and, admitted.
Time for curtains, lights out and goodbyes.
Without integrity neither he nor the network has any value.
I have personal experience with this. I was under the employ of a large corporation, where I held a management position. We had an office staff of approximately 250 employees, and a manufacturing operation consisting of 700 employees; obviously we boasted a large mix of gender and age groups. A single man, I often received phone calls, invitations to social events, and gratuities ranging from flowers to concert tickets from female coworkers; some of these ladies were often very bold in stating their intentions of wanting to date. This firm had very strict policies concerning dating of coworkers, for those in the managerial ranks. Sexual harassment has extenuating circumstances in litigation; the fact that that one can make claims that an affair was consensual offers little to no protection!
Well to get to the heart of the matter, I had diligently maintained all my business relationships as purely professional; even with something as innocent as a luncheon, if it was going to be in the company of a female coworker, I invited male coworkers to join us. Yes I “had” been successful, that is until this new hire, a girl working the front desk, began flirting with me. Over the course of her first several weeks we had many conversation and before long we began taking breaks together (very noticeable as up to that point I never took breaks). We wound up dating and had all of the signs of this becoming a committed relationship. Straightaway I scheduled a meeting with Human Resources, and explained that I was dating this girl, and that we both acknowledged serious involvement… no sexual activity had transpired.
I was first of all thanked for my professionalism in coming forth with my intentions. I was informed that company policy forbids a manager to date a direct subordinate; however I was not guilty of any infraction since she was not a direct report of mine. Furthermore they saw this as being controllable; they simply would be restricted from ever placing her under my direct supervision. It is noteworthy that this same type of situation developed about a year later with one of our directors; he was discovered having a relationship with his secretary. This was a clear infraction of policy! Our senior management informed him that he was going to have a positional demotion to a floor level manager, that he they would not reduce his current compensation package, however he would not be eligible for any wage increases for a period of three years. In management we refer to this type of arrangement as leveraging, since it is less messy to have a manger quit as opposed to terminating him… which is precisely what happened.
The policy of this company, drafted by their legal department, was premised on the idea that it is disparaging for a manger that directly influences a subordinates work schedule, performance reviews, promotional considerations, and compensation, to be personally and romantically involved with said subordinate.
BYW………I believe the only people enjoying this right now is Sarah Palin/family.
I read through most of the comments and I must say I’m impressed with the varied views. Most of you got it right whether you indicated what he did was acceptable or not. One thing that it WASN’T at this point is sexual harassment and you likely won’t hear about it either. Letterman might be an older man but from the news that precede, “he packs a punch”. SO – that means these girls he was riding had a good time and so did he. Now if CBS Network is pissed off over the situation, they could fire him and he’ll just go to HBO or another cable network (like Bill Maher did). Just goes to show you can’t judge a book by its cover!
LOL
It is amazing how people make a SIMPLE issue difficult.
1. The Boss or Manager should NEVER have SEX with any JUNIOR employee that works AT THE SAME COMPANY. CASE CLOSED!!
It does not matter if they work in your department or not
if it’s the same company.. and If You get Sued YOU DESERVE IT.
Ask yourself one simple Question:
1. Why would a young hottie sleep with Dave.. Is he too handsome to RESIST… GET REAL! As one reader put it ” His behavior crosses every threshold of ethical behavior”. HE HAD THE SEX NOW PAY THE PRICE… (Old men gotta pay for a young hottie.. We Know That…smile).
The media is running this into the ground like they do everything else. Dave apparently was single at the time. These women knew what they were doing and they were all of age. I say let it the hell alone. That is Dave business.
Dave is depraved, but folks if it took this to get you to notice, you’re not really paying attention. Kudos to Laurie for the punk rock insight on this one. Spot on.
YES, IT is SEXUAL HARASSMENT! HE ABUSED his position to have sex with women of his staff. He should know better and should be punished like any other men has been in a similar situation. I do not like or accept his apologies. He should pay for his errors.
Com’on it’s the entertianment company. You might as well call it the “Night Out” instead of the “Late Night” with David Letterman. I was an HR assistant at a Latin television station. Everyone was doing someone. The assistant that sat next to me advised me of many a time a married and unmarried gal walked into the news anchors office only to come out straightening out her nickers. Gee’s Luis, I married the Senior IT guy. (ya I like nerds what of it) anyway. Bottem line. It happens. It does not have to be an entertainment company either. However, he was a total ass to his wife and child. Total jerk. What’d you get married for bone head Letterman. The chicks that new he was married and still went for it are also total a-holes.
As for the single men and women. Your put together for eight hours a day, stressfull situations, parties, late night meetings… yada yada yada… You get the picture and if you dont you must work from home ; )
NOt at all
Sexual harassment by definition relates to unwanted sexual advances . If all romance were based on mutual consent then what harrassment ??
Since Letterman is the big boss, it is automatically implied that sex with him would equal better job prospects and denial of sex would jeopardize your career. Consensual sex among co-workers is one thing, but when the top boss makes sexual advances it is using his/her position for sexual gratification. Top dog doesn’t have to say “sex or you’re out”. The employer/employee relationship tilts the playing field. ergo, he’s a smarmy sleaze.
If anyone is interested in the legal side of Letterman’s behavior, here is an interesting take.
http://funnybusiness.typepad.com/funnybusiness/2009/10/letterman-sex-scandal-demonstrates-how-little-we-know-about-sexual-harassment.html
A lot of people are commenting that the sex was consensual. Let’s face it, he couldn’t be more boring, loudly laughs at his own jokes and is a really ugly guy. No woman would have sex with him unless they work for him and are afraid of repercussions.
Excuse me…. Did Letterman and Birkitt stop seeing each other before his marriage ? This is what i am reading as i chk all the current reports ! If this is true, then how was their relationship an affair ? Attraction between men and women that work together is nothing new, i am sure there are many happily married people who met while working together. I can’t say i am a big fan of Mr Letterman, but should his job be threatened ? Should he be tried in the court of public opinion ? I think people that have nothing better to do than slander and gossip a person for being human is absurd ! Get over it, or better yet, do something constructive with your time.
Here and all this time I though this behavior was an exclusive for Preachers and Politicians! add talk show hosts….
Well usually they are the ones talking about this stuff!
It is an immoral and illegal act when a person uses their power within an oranization to force sexual advances on a person. However, in my opinion it is an equally immoral act when a person yells sexual harrassment as a way of dealing with a failed relationship. Unfortunately, the latter is not illegal. In both cases the offender violates a person’s personal freedom and does harm simply for their own personal benefit – whatever that may be. I don’t know what happened in the case of David Letterman, but I know enough not to assume anything just because it uses the bad word “sexual harrassment.”
REMOVE HIM
I firmly believe that no company, private or public, has the right to dictate who an employee may see after work, provided both parties are consenting adults, and preferably unmarried. The only exception would be the psychologist/patient relationship, as the patient is in an extremely vulnerable position. Two years following the date of last treatment, they can go out, with no culpability on the shrink, as the patient is then deemed to be stronger, emotionally.
Some feminists wish to carry the psychologist/patient taboo to any scenario where there is a difference of status & power. They wish to demonize those in the higher positions (at one time, usually men), and to infantalize those in the lower position (at one time, usually women). Now, that is totally absurd! If I worked in Katie Couric’s department, assume she asked me to go out. Would I revert to a boy under 18, who lacked the capacity to say “yes”? Of course, I would be flattered, and readily agree to go! If, on the other hand, I politely declined, and Katie made my work life miserable, I would have the sexual policy of CBS to fall back on.
Also, there would be a question of enforcement. Would the mere sighting of a manager and staff member at a restaurant, movie theater, or of one entering the other’s residence be grounds for “discipline”? This would be a gross violation of one’s Civil Rights, and also Constitutional Rights, if they worked for a public employer!
In summation, companies have no business playing surrogate daddy & mommy to their employees. They have no right to either “prohibit” nor “permit” after hours dating, between consenting adults, regardless of status within the company. More respect should be given to individual rights, than to “political correctness”!
I have to say I am not too surprised at Mr. Letterman’s behavior in the workplace. I think that these staffers he had sex with are too afraid to report him since he is their boss and also the other male hosts like Ferguson and Leno are not confronting him at all which means to me that they either support Letterman in his behavior or are afraid to approach this host’s immoral behavior. It is being treated like a real joke as everyone in the audience laughed when Letterman broke the news. They also continued to laugh the next evening when he made even more jokes about his lack of judgment in treating the women on his staff. I was wondering if he took lessons from Ensign since he too had sex with a staffer that worked in his office also. Between Ensign and Sanford this means Letterman could qualify easily to be a Republican Congressman or Senator.
In closing I did not hear him apologize to his son Harry or his mom who seems to be a wonderful lady with a really excellent character and I am sure she raised him with a moral core to do things the ethical way. I fear that he is not leaving his son with a good legacy and even though his son is very young he will grow up as children do very quickly and he will find out in some manner what his father has done. Bad actions never seem to be buried for very long. We have gotten so used to people in a job that is powerful in one way or another acting without morals and getting what they want when they want it. These men are like bad children. So I do hope he apologizes to his son also on his show because he is important too and because children always identify with the same sex parent. I do hope his wife can heal also. I am sure that will take a long time to accomplish and once trust is broken I am not sure how you regain it. This is just my personal feelings but I am very sick of hearing about men in power of some kind either political or entertainment getting away with hurting so many people and then others seem like they have to make the situation right. Just because you admit to something it does not mean that there are no serious repercussions. Oh well that is just the way it is I guess. This is my two cents.
2 Corrections to the Above Comment:
At the end of paragraph 2, I meant to say, “…I would have the sexual harassment policy of CBS to fall back on.”
In the last paragraph, I should have said, “They have no right to either “prohibit” or “permit” after hours dating,…”
It’s funny, how we often catch errors after submitting the comment, in spite of proofreading!
I’m guessing other comments touch on this…and maybe I’m just naive about the subject, BUT…….
Isn’t it possible for Dave’s on-the-side ladies to hold the power and initiate the sexual advances? I mean, women generally can decide who they give their vaginas up to, right? A man can just hope and pray it will be his turn next….at least that’s how I tend to see the sex game played out.
Women know that vaginas are like kryptonite to men
(one of the best parts of being a woman, btw), so maybe Dave was the powerless victim. HA!
Bottom line…if this was truly a problem for the ladies involved, they would have nixed it several years ago. Women aren’t powerless, especially in the 21st century.
I think Letterman and his ladies have nothing to do with sexual harassment or workplace hierarchy and everything to do with freakin’ hot n horny people getting down like bunny rabbits.
And I think the Nat’l Org of Wom blasting Letterman (http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/10/07/letterman.now/index.html) fails to recognize the sexual power that women do possess. Women aren’t always (in fact, rarely) poor, helpless victims.
Screwing around happens all the time. Often times it may be initiated by a woman (*gasp* oh, the horror). Unfortunately for the public men involved, they get the bad rap for it.
Oh, and as for this happening in the workplace….I couldn’t care less. Isn’t that what makes it so exciting?
We could all use a little more excitment, wouldn’t you say?
I’m guessing other comments touch on this…and maybe I’m just naive about the subject, BUT…….
Isn’t it possible for Dave’s on-the-side ladies to hold the power and initiate the sexual advances? I mean, women generally can decide who they give their vaginas up to, right? A man can just hope and pray it will be his turn next….at least that’s how I tend to see the sex game played out.
Women know that vaginas are like kryptonite to men
(one of the best parts of being a woman, btw), so maybe Dave was the powerless victim. HA!
Bottom line…if this was truly a problem for the ladies involved, they would have nixed it several years ago.
I think Letterman and his ladies have nothing to do with sexual harassment or workplace hierarchy and everything to do with freakin’ hot n horny people getting down like bunny rabbits.
And I think the Nat’l Org of Wom blasting Letterman (http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/10/07/letterman.now/index.html) fails to recognize the sexual power that women do possess. Women aren’t always (in fact, rarely) poor, helpless victims.
Screwing around happens all the time. Often times it may be initiated by a woman (*gasp* oh, the horror). Unfortunately for the public men involved, they get the bad rap for it.
sweatpeabart,
I fully agree with your sentiments expressed above. However, women’s best parts should never be regarded as “kryptonite”! It is only the misuse of them that is reprehensible, similar to when men use their “equipment” in a selfish way.
Wrong, right, I don’t know. I know that now I think of him as a sad and kinda-creepy old fart, and he’s even less funny than he was before.
Funny post, sweatpea! I don’t see what’s creepy about it. Fame is an aphrodisiac to some women, I think. Some people are saying Dave was single at the time. If that IS the case, then this would almost be a non-story, if it wasn’t for the extortion attempt.
On any Company “Most People” (Homos, lesbians or men to women) love to mess around with others like a teenagers or snakes.
“PLAY WITH FIRE AND YOU WILL GET BURN”
P.S. I do not kiss ass No Boss or Co-worker !
Its like Rape without a knife! The diffence is your life is still on the line but not like life or dead. Its do i have a job, a pay check
do you think he would take REJECTION well, I DON’T.
Doug
My wife and I are retired. We have discussed the Letterman issue with many, many friends and family. ALL share the same
opinion that “Letterman should be FIRED! “.
He did these things while living in a defacto marriage to his current wife. His actions reflect his lack of moral responsibility, disregard for persons who respected him and believed in him.
It is our opinions that he is a low-life who is trying to deflect his faults by focusing attention on Halderman. A common trick of
professional publicists . Letterman , you are disgusting.
There is nothing unusual about this. Since kindergarden, we have always found attraction mostly to those we have contact with on a daily basis. We spend most of our awakening time at work and don’t care to look for companionship at bars; so if your “single” and have an attraction to someone you are around 8-14 hours a day….what is so wrong with a relationship? At least you know something about this person (morals, history, etc.) and is sooo much better than bars or, gosh forbid, a dating service. So get real, I think David Letterman is a much better guy than most!
It fun to have sex at co-workers…you’re peers are always trying to impress each other. What’s more impressive than a great night of romance?
BUT, Letterman didn’t have sex with a peer, he had sex with a subordinate. Did she suffer from it? Apparently not, but her co-workers may have. She appear on the show regularly because she was doing Dave and others on the program were not given that opportunity.
Stephanie’s co-workers all have grounds for a legitimate law suit.
Is sex a requirement for keeping your job or getting promoted? It may not be explicit but it is implicit. He took advantage of ladies at his mercy. That is what the sexual harassment law is supposed to protect us from. If its OK for Letterman, then when is it ever not OK? who can ever be prosecuted, if a repeat offender is not prosecuted.
You never hear anyone say that this man is human,Fellow talk show host have degraded the man.I give him a lot of credit for what he did.it showed that he had guts,toomany people are now hoping that chgs.will be brought against the man for work place harrassment,Had this been true there would be several millionaires walking around now.We should have our minds on how our Government is being run and tag the ones that preach morality and then come to find out they are either gay or are in another relationship other than there wives.Dave made a mistake and bad judgement but he is not a bad man
these women beed fame and money. Consensual sex is not harrassment.
It is a harrassment for others if consented coz when a hardworking employee sees others who’re sleeping with boss get all favors and raises, then they’re demorlised. If you’re sleeping with your boss, you take all kind of privileges like coming late, raises, promotions while others still deprived of all that despite working hard. If a boss setting up such examples then what to speak about others in that business. Also there’s something called farnication…… right?
I famous Actor told me many years ago….The best thing an entertainer should know, is when it’s time to retire…close the book…turn the page…
David has done a great job in his field….like many others…But I think the tome has come to step aside…let it go…life continues….no one is going to die because these late night guys are gone…the sun will rise the next day….thank you for all the great joys…you will be missed…
Thanks You
I think that David Letterman should be taken off the air. What kind of a jerk is he anyway. He talks about this as if he is bragging about it, such as another notch in his belt. What kind of message is he sending out to the public? I hope that his wife takes him for all that she can get and I do hope that the other women do file sexual charges against this skum bag.
if there was no one forcing this young women to have sex and it was all done with thier aproval,,, then it should be no ones buiness but thier own ,,,, now that its all in the open someone will see dollor signs you wait and see…
As a male HR professional, I just had to weigh in on this one:
In addition to the power issue, there is also an issue I’m not seeing mentioned…. The environment that existed for employees NOT involved in a sexual relationship with the Boss. Say you are one of three staff members who share the same title and pay base. Lets assume also that you would like to take on more resposibilities, gain more professional expoure, and advance in the company you work for. The problem you are having is that you are the only one of the three NOT having sex with the boss. BIG problem- especially if it subjects you to taking on more of the load because your team member is a slacker who just happens to be out having lunch- and desert – with the boss.
This is at best, very inappropriate behavior. And while I like Dave, he really crossed the line and owes more than just an on air apology to his staff.
Surely working in Times Square, he could find a means to satisfy his sex drive without subjecting staff members to what may very well have constituted a hostile work enviornment.
Ken B.
LETTERMAN OR WORLDWIDE PANTS BACK THEN FIRES ONE OF THOSE WOMAN THEN YOU KNOW THERE WILL BE A SEXUAL HARASSMENT SUIT.
he shouild be fired!!!! u would be ,huh!, he’s a poor excuse for a man who has everthing
They were consenting adults it is between him, his wife and the women involved. It is no one elses business especially Gloria Allred. It is not sexual harassment
Sex in the work place has been going on for eons and as long as we are sexual beings it is going to continue regardless what the watch dog groups say. The basics of harassment is that if I do or say anything to a person that is considered sexual and that person finds what I did or said offensive and I persist in my behavior even after I have been told to stop it is harassment, but if it is between consenting adults then it is nobodys business, but theirs. However don’t forget about the Third party harassment which is an even grayer (if that is a word) area. Where an immediate third party can take offense and report it without the party that the offense was made against. We will just have to wait and see.
It brings up the question about Letterman’s morals. CBS seems to Condon Letterman’s conduct of Sexual misbehaver, because bad sales while shame on you CBS. He was able to call 14 year old and 17 year old whores not to mention using New York Yankees players to do it. I wonder how they liked being called pedophiles. And now you ask it this is sexual harassment this man is out of control and for CBS to say they do not employ him. Come on CBS you have the choice to air the show shame on you.
We do not except this behavior from are law makers why should we accept it from Letterman. CBS should step to the plate and say enough is enough and do the right thing.
Thank You
The problem with the consenting adults argument is simply, Did the women involved receive any advantage in the the workplace, such as promotions, raises or other things because of their actions? If they did it is wrong! Yes it happens all the time in the workplace, but talk about unfair to the other employees. Or maybe its not because maybe they all had the same opportunity to sleep with him. I just don’t know?
Although, I absolutely don’t condone Letterman’s behavior, if the women consent freely and feel absolutely no pressure to be intimate with him, it’s not sexual harrassment.
I think that when your at work you should be working. I also don’t think it’s appropriate for a boss to be able to do that and should lose or leave their job if they’re in a relationship with those that are working for them. If you’re getting paid you are supposed to be working and if your on break I think hugging is ok but or if it’s someone at the same level but a boss with their assistants i think that as an authority should have left his job or
been fired!!
I have since read some of the comments posted earlier, before I posted my 1st comment.
akaBruno, my guess is that you attend the University of Iowa. According to Barry Dank, a/k/a the “Dank Professor”, that school has the most intolerant attitude of any college in the country, regarding consensual dating between professors & students, and also any two people where there is deemed to be a “power differential”. Barry Dank is a leading voice in eliminating all bans on consensual dating; people should check out his writings.
I now wish to present a scenario which would involve “crossing the line”. I firmly believe that, when one’s Civil &/or Constitutional Rights are being violated, that it is OK to “bend the rules”, in the name of justice. Keep in mind that I am not a lawyer, but I’ll share what one thought of my idea.
Say I am a professor/employee in a college/workplace that “prohibits” consensual dating, even involving consenting adults, away from the school/workplace. I and other unmarried people decide to hire a private investigator to check out the dean/human resources director who is enforcing the ban. Maybe he would prove to be “clean”. Or else, we learn that he is guilty of one or more of the following:
A) He is a married man, who often cheats on his wife.
B) He has an outside source of income, which he is not reporting to the I.R.S.
C) He uses recreational drugs, like cocaine.
After the private eye provides our group with documented evidence of any of the above, one of us is seen at an off campus/workplace location, with his/her student/different ranked employee. That person (I’ll be the make believe protagonist) is called to a meeting with the dean/HR Director. He says something arbitrary, like “We have evidence that you are dating one of your students/underlings. You know our rules against that kind of activity. I am going to have to terminate you over this”. I then smile, reach into my vest pocket, and pull out an envelope, saying, “Not so fast; I wouldn’t want your wife/ the I.R.S./ campus police/local police to see this, old boy”! The dean/HR Director opens the envelope, and his face turns ashen. “You will keep this between us, won’t you”, he says, in a near whisper. I respond, “Of course I will. Furthermore, I give you my word that I won’t ask for money, or a promotion. I just want you to leave all of us alone, regarding who we see after work. You can have that; I have 3 other copies, all in different locations. Do we have a deal??” The shaken dean/administrator agrees that we do. I wish him a good day, and walk out of his office, knowing that I have delivered a blow for justice!
The way I see it, blackmail statutes were written to prevent people from extracting money, or other undeserved consideration, from others. If my rights of privacy & free association, away from work, are being violated, I have a right to take extroadinary action. In 2000, I ran this informally by a lawyer. He agreed that it would be very unlikey that the typical D.A. would press charges against me, over this. An exception would be if I was the head of a political party, and the D.A. was a member of the opposite party. The D.A. may then want to embarrass me, even if he/she knew that this would be a weak case.
Realistically, would the D.A. even find out? It’s not as though the dean/HR Director would want word to get out, about his conduct!
I would be interested in reading the moderator’s opinion, and other views on this hypothetical scenario.
I heard that Johnny Carson did it too.
Of course it is sexual harrassment. One has to be very careful these days. It would be nice if David Letterman’s wife took a little more pride in her appearance. Good grief!
If the women themselves did not file charges and did not feel harassed, why did this man consider it his duty to help them on this inappropriate behavior. Of course, it was not good. He is a married man with a young son. Do lots of men do it? Yes. In fact, if truth be known the Halderman person probably had illicit affair with Birkitt before his divorce from his wife. Just leave it alone.
well,if what David letterman did was wrong let it be .what of when a woman has sex with her fellow work? Is it every thing a man do that people will figure out to be bad remember that sex are done by two people and for a man like David l know women will like to come close to him or even sleep with him.l am a woman l konw the many faces of a woman but we always like to pretend please leave David alone to continue his late night show for we that enjoy it.
They should be firing Letterman as well not just the other guy. Sex in the workplace period is unacceptable behavior and costly to a company. I don’t care if he does bring the numbers in and make CBS money! If it were someone of a lessor position, you can bet they would walk him or her out the door immediately! Get rid of the trash (Letterman) and bring in some class. Besides he isn’t even funny! SEXUAL HARASSMENT LETTERMAN! How unfortunate for the woman married to him to put up with that humiliation from him. I would divorce the jerk immediately! Consenting adults? Give me a break! Where are the morals. The man is married!!!! and they are at work to work not have sex!
Its not sexual harrassment if its consensual between both parties. Sexual Harrassment is:
such unwelcome sexually determined behavior as physical contact and advances, sexually colored remarks, showing pornography and sexual demands, whether by words or actions. Such conduct can be humiliating and may constitute a health and safety problem; it is discriminatory when the woman has reasonable ground to believe that her objection would disadvantage her in connection with her employment, including recruitment or promotion, or when it creates a hostile working environment.
If she didn’t want to continue this type of work enviroment she would have said something. If we base this as sexual harrasment then whats to say in a relationship the woman can saying after her and her significant other break up “well yea we sleep together and he talked about certain sexual things butI felt uncomfortable the whole time so it must be sexual harrasment”
Duh people! We just need a set definition of Sexual Harrasment and I think it’ll help alot.
Very well put, Stephy! The only modification I would make, regarding your definition of sexual harassment, is this. It would take more than a woman’s “reasonable ground to believe that her objection would disadvantage her…”. After saying “no” to a date, she would have to cite concrete examples of discriminatory behavior, or of hostile work environment, before claiming “sexual harassment”.
In my agency, years ago, the then Assistant Director of Administration asked out a secretary, and she politely declined. Nothing amiss took place. Then, about a year later, a co-worker suggested the secretary approach him about lunch. Of course, the Assistant Director readily agreed. They dated on & off for about 11 years, then finally got married, in 1988. No hostile environment or undeserved promotions occurred, and people all around wished them well! He then became the Director of Administration, and ultimitaly retired, in 2006. There were 2 retirement parties for him-the first in New York City, then a second up in Albany. She continues to work for our agency.
It’s a good thing that co-worker convinced her to approach him, a year after she turned him down!
One thing I am constantly hearing, concerning David Letterman, was that he was cheating on his wife. He didn’t marry her until 3/09! They had a son together in 2003, but there is no evidence that his trysts occurred after the marriage, and possibly not after the son was born.
As far as I am concerned, it is only wrong for a man to date someone at work if A) he uses his status & power to coerce her, or B) He is married at the time of the dating. Even though David Letterman had a long time girlfriend (a former employee), she was not his wife, until last March. True, he has some explaining to do to her, but I can’t imagine that she didn’t know what was going on, through the years. My guess is that she tolerated his affairs, in the hope that he would eventually settle down with her. If that was so, she ultimately got her wish!