JL has a networking question.
This is more of a psych question, but I figure you deal with professional boundaries. I have a networking connection (we are both unemployed) whom I have met with once for coffee. After the 3rd email correspondence, he has started referring to me as his “friend”. We have corresponded via email regarding the job search & a book he is writing (unrelated to his job) that I agreed to give feedback on. He is married & has a son, and I think he’s just incredibly socially awkward. At our first meeting I initially thought he might have a learning disability. Now he has started mentioning his wife in our emails, venting about his job search, and generally crossing the professional boundary. The kind of things you DO talk to your friends about, but we are NOT friends. What do I say to make it clear that we are networking contacts and nothing more?
I answered the question privately, but I would like to throw this out to Punk Rock HR readers. Can anyone speak to this situation? I’m really interested in hearing from you.
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{ 31 comments }
Well, you first have to make a choice. Is this someone you’d like to stay connected to professionally? If so, I’d suggest you use redirection to always bring the conversation back to your comfort zone. In other words, never really address or comment on anything that falls outside the box of propriety (in your mind). If, after such attempts, he doesn’t get the hint, you may need to assess whether you cut him off completely. Just my two cents.
Do you really want this guy as a networking connection? I’m thinking probably not. As it has been said, “Show me your friends, and I’ll show you your future.” Chances are that people you would like and respect don’t like this guy either. (Let’s face it, you really don’t like him. It’s okay, you can say it.) And so if this guy is going around crowing about how you’re a friend, it could put you in a bad light. Or you’ll find yourself standing behind him frantically sign-languaging: “No I’m not!!” at every professional networking event you go to.
I don’t mean to be unkind, but this guy sounds like a dead-end in every way. You probably wouldn’t want any connections he could bring to you, and you probably wouldn’t want to introduce him to any of your valued connections.
My vote: Let the connection atrophy. Not in the practice of being passive aggressive? For handy-dandy tips: Read “He’s Just Not That Into You” and study the behaviors of the would-be boyfriends that women complain about. You’ll see that the prevailing pattern is that they just kind of let things drop and time pass without reading/returning emails or phone calls. It’s chicken, for sure, but who needs the tsouris of dramatic confrontation, especially when you had zero invested in the connection anyway?
Get out of it now, and you’ll also be protecting yourself from being the subject of complaining emails he’ll be sending the next sucker down the line.
Be cautious about what you share and how you respond. Respond to the professional chatter, but not the personal stuff or you will be perceived as a friend. I would also evaluate what you are receiving in the networking relationship. If this relationship is more work than it’s worth to you, maybe it’s time to get out of there!
In general people need to learn to sack up. If the conversation is uncomfortable, inappropriate, our otherwise unprofessional, say that. Say that in plain and simple English. Don’t dance around the issue, don’t try to soften it to save someone’s feelings; be clear, be professional, and put it in no uncertain terms.
That being said, if the dude is by chance crazy, remember that sane can’t reason with crazy. The only thing crazy understands and respects is crazier.
If you can avoid spending time with someone who makes you uncomfortable, do so. There is usually a reason your spidey sense is tingling. That said if you feel you need to keep a professional relationship you should set some boundaries. You are comfortable talking about X but not Y, so let him know. You do risk losing the professional connection but I doubt that will make or break your career. Quid pro quo has become a dirty turn of phrase in the business world, but ultimately it is the driving force of business and most relationships – personal or professional. You offer this and get that in return. Sounds like you have conflict over the This & That. Ultimately you both maybe looking for different things, best to know and move forward/on as appropriate.
@HRPufnstuf is dead on. People should adult up and communicate
Considering his lack of social skills and boundaries, I can’t imagine he’ll ever be much of a beneficial connection.
I mean, is this someone with whom you wish to be associated by potential employers?
When a professional relationship has zero professional benefit, what’s the point?
Learn to have a crucial conversation. It will put a definite end to this issue and help you avoid weeks (perhaps even months if this dude is crazy) of emails that you’ll have to ignore (which, in turn, will keep this guy on your brain).
I have to disagree. What does it cost you if he calls you a friend? He’s not asking you to vouch for him in some way, he’s just taking up more of your time than you like. Tell him you’re getting busy, and do what you want with your time. If it’s spending time with him, great. If not, great. But it’s both mean and overkill to have some conversation where you tell him, “You’re not my first best friend, and you’re not in my ten best friends, you’re down here in acquaintance land.” It’s rude and unnecessary and makes you sound like a snob. Get over it.
Normally I would agree with Corey and HRPnS. However, as HRPnS said, “remember that sane can’t reason with crazy. The only thing crazy understands and respects is crazier.” Crucial conversations — and the skills that go along with them — are good to have. Unless they make you crazier. I’m thinking this guy would make anyone crazier.
Your time is precious right now, while you’re looking for a job. So is your mental health. If this guy is bugging you so much right now that you’re asking for our advice, he’s already taking up way too much peace-of-mind real estate. Move on. You’ve got bigger fish to fry right now. Let someone else have that crucial conversation with him.
I agree with @HRPufnstuf 100%. We’re adults and if they someone is going outside of the professional boundaries than tell them, they’ll be okay.
I would recommend employing Puf…..as the crazier…..
Alternatively follow his sage advice….although I really have no idea what “sacking up” is? Does it happen when you go in a cold sea?
I dunno, guys. I have been on both sides of the equation. I’ve been overly intimate with people and assumed a level of friendship that didn’t exist, and I’ve had people do the same with me. Here’s what I know: friendships take time to develop and the internet creates a false sense of intimacy. I feel for JL because you don’t want to kick a guy when he’s down… and maybe there’s a way to help him. I told JL to provide the phone number for the local branch of United Way as a response to the next ‘confessional’ email message. I loved the United Way office in Kalamazoo. They were a great resource for people who were unemployed, having relationship issues, and at the end of a rope.
@Mark That’s very diplomatic of you.
@Martha Sounds like you have some personal experience in this arena.
@Bonita Wise to set boundaries.
@HRPuf I always say that you can’t argue with crazy. My family has taught me that. My Mom changed it to, “You can’t argue with gravy.” That’s true, too.
@Woo We don’t trust our guts enough in life, do we?
@Corey “Adult up” is so adult.
@Elise Well maybe the point is that JL can be of some help to this poor guy… we effectively network when we are resources for other people, too.
@Rick Crucial conversations. Someone should write a book on that topic.
@FrannyO I totally agree that it takes nothing to be kind to someone — and there’s no sense in being unkind. Some dudes don’t take a hint, though. What do you do in that case?
@ReviewSnap You can’t go wrong with being on Team Puf.
@TheHRD Puf needs to write a book on his awesome sayings.
@Laurie very true re: can be hard to gauge other persons perceptions of level of intimacy and it is absolutely amplified by social media. Which is partly why I disagree with your comments over at here http://www.fistfuloftalent.com/2009/08/employee-relations-the-street-cred-every-hr-leader-must-have-final.html#comments . It is too easy to unintentionally cross boundaries which is why HR will always be tied to ER.
@FrannyO good thought, the world would be a better place if we all thought to be kind
How about you just not answer his emails? God knows I forget to respond to emails from people I actually want to stay in contact with, so why make an effort to respond to his? I’ve never found that a “crucial conversation” works with people like this anyway, and it just takes more of your time! He wants your attention, so he’ll likely just change the game a bit if you do that, but the result will be the same. I bet you anything he goes back to the same time/emotional vortex on you before too long. At least that’s been my experience with people like this. I had a conversation with someone like this once before, and things were pretty good for a couple weeks, but then it went back to the same ol’ same ol’.
If you actually want to maintain this professional connection, then just don’t remark on anything personal that he sends you. Some training might be in order with this guy. Only comment on the professional stuff and ignore the rest.
What does “The Fray” say, “Sometimes the right thing is the hardest this to do?” (definitely paraphrased – hence a recruiter and not a member cover band ensemble).
Not completely on topic but related; this helped me create a delineation that I could be comfortable without alienating someone I respect, but whom didn’t want to “open the Kimono”, so to speak.
This was really timely for me as a former Exec that I used to work with that I am connected to on LinkedIn sent me an invite for Facebook…I thought it a bit curious and really struggled with accepting…and then this morning Jeremy Owyang posted this as a Web Strategy Guru:
http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2009/09/07/help-my-boss-wants-to-be-my-friend-on-facebook/
Hope this helps.
I can relate to this topic. I can be a very friendly person (office and socially) and have had many “overtures” for friendship from people in the past (you ca only have so many friends, y’know)—
Two rules:
1. Drop hint that it’s a professional relationship– not friendship.
2. If number one doesn’t work? Tell the person straight out it’s a a professional relationship, not friendship and set boundaries right away– who cares what they do. There’s very good email filter’s, call screening, etc. And depending on how good the police are in your area?? 911 is very effective. If this guys nuts– the cops already know it.
@Woo I know we think HR needs to have an ER role, but I’m not sure that’s the case in reality. I think that well-trained HR people can teach employees to mediate conflict, but HR cannot be the arbiter of right & wrong in the workplace.
@H Aria That’s the tricky thing about this email message. I can’t tell if JL wants to be done with her “acquaintance” or if she wants to preserve the connection. I assumed she wanted to be done with him, but now I’m not so sure.
@Lou I hope you declined the invite!
@MattyMat This is a professional relationship. There, I said it. I’m just not that into you. The police are really good in my area, and I have a gun.
Can I just say I feel JL’s pain? Recently I renewed a relationship with professional acquaintance from my previous career in social work. She was looking to transition to a more corporate setting and was using me as a sounding board. What was supposed to be a lunch to discuss a plan of attack, turned into hour long e-mail sessions where I heard the trials and tribulations of her life both personal and professional. I later found out that she was on the verge of getting fired from her current job because she had allowed her personal issues to affect her performance.
I knew I had to do something so I asked her to lunch today and basically told her that I felt that we had lost sight of our original objective and I asked her to help identify a way to get back on track. I didn’t even have to say anything about all the e-mails, she admitted that she had been a little too quick to share.
Now we have a plan of action to move forward on her professional goals and I have her permission to put her on notice when she starts to overshare again. I’m not saying that she doesn’t have some personal issues as well, but I decided that if my goal is to limit this to a professional relationship then I need to do just that. I think we both left the table feeling that we new the boundaries and hopefully out communications well be more productive in the future……..fingers crossed!
I feel bad for the guy. He obviously needs a friend quite badly if he is reaching out in this manner. When people need friends that bad, they generally can’t (won’t) reach out in a way that is “attractive” to others. Who wants to be friends with someone desperate for friends? Someone depressed? Someone (fill in the blank)?
I urge the person who doesn’t want to be friends with this person to be kind, but honest; tactful but firm.
At the same time, is it so much skin off your nose to be a friend to someone who needs one? I understand some people can get weird and velcro-like and no one wants that. But, unless something else is happening that isn’t mentioned in Laurie’s post, what is the big frigging deal listening to someone who needs an ear? It doesn’t sound like he’s driving by your house, calling 40 times a day or anything like that.
@Laurie Whew!! I thought we were getting a little close– thanks for clearing that up!
((Nothin’ sexier than a chick with a gun, though!))
@Jenn I agree with what you’re saying, but when the person asking the question writes:
“The kind of things you DO talk to your friends about, but we are NOT friends.”
In her case– I think the all caps NOT is pretty straight forward.
I think generational concerns might have more to do with this than social media in terms of people being unaware of being overly friendly. Most people I know a few years older than me to about ten years yonger than me (say 25-40) seem to come from a generation where what I would clal a friendly acquaintance, they will refer to as friend. And once they convince themselves of it, the inappropriate sharing follows. I am, of course, just as guilty of this as anyone else on occasion.
@Puf, dude you. are. awesome. ‘nuf said.
That’s a sticky situation. On one had I lean toward being up front with the guy and telling him you arent interested in hearing his drama. On the other, I feel bad for him but I personally wouldnt want to hear that after just three emails.
If its just simply an online coorespondance I might would ignore those that are too personal and only address the business/professional pieces. If the emails become progressively more personal, a simple “I’m not comfortable with where this conversation {relationship} is going” might be in order.
It doesn’t cost anything to be thought of as someone’s friend. If he’s such a flake that you don’t want that relationship, there’s little benefit to be had for either of you in maintaining a professional networking relationship. So either you’re the guy’s friend or you’re not connected. Tom Cruise said it best in Cocktail “All things end badly. Or else it wouldn’t end.”
I think I just obliterated any punk rock cred I may have ever had. I still love that movie.
I’m confused as to how much of an annoyance someone can be after such brief contact. One meeting in person and a couple emails? I wouldn’t really mind it if someone called me a friend – as long as they weren’t a total douche. JL doesn’t seem to make any indication as to how much detail this “friend/not friend” is going into about his personal life. If the F/NF is being graphic about what he did with his wife last night, then yeah, we’re going a bit out of bounds (even for a friend, IMHO). But if he’s saying, “Oh yeah, Wife and I saw (insert name of movie here) last night. She LOVED it, I couldn’t STAND it!” – then I don’t see what the problem is? Or venting about the job search…? HELLO – my candidates vent to me about this. My friends vent to me about this. It’s a big topic of conversation right now, in most circles.
I’m inclined to agree with @Frannyo.
Maybe it’s because I think professional talk is, for the most part, boring. Maybe it’s because I want to deal with PEOPLE (professional contacts or not) like they’re actual PEOPLE, as opposed to potential deals or numbers or what-have-you. Obviously, people talk business because they have to, but what’s the problem with talking about the game, or bragging on your kid, or WHATEVER.
JL’s question left a bad taste in my mouth.
@Laurie Very good point taken.
@Elise Well you made a very good point first. You always have such good insight on my blog. I put my heart before my head, sometimes. I’m glad you’re here to weigh in with sensible comments!
@MeredithElaine I think we are limited by the note from JL. We don’t get to ask follow-up questions or read her body language. I’m glad you are so thoughtful, though. You’re right — professional talk is very boring. I’d rather talk about someone’s dirty secrets, personally.
@Scott Cocktail? I’ve never seen that movie but I hear it’s his best work!
@Mouse You might be right — language can be generational. Good observation.
@adowling It’s a tough call. Thanks for supporting Puf!!
@Jenn I feel bad for him, too. Like an injured puppy. You just want to help this guy out.
@Lori WHOA! That’s the first time, ever, that someone has been motivated to do something because of my blog. You deserve an award or something. If I’m in your town, I will buy you coffee!
Tom Cruise’s best work? That’s a bit like being Phish’s shortest song, the most liberal person in East Kentucky, or the funniest episode of “According to Jim.”
He’s awful. It’s awful. But it’s so quintessentially 80′s that I think anyone born between 1965 and 1990 has to watch it at least once. If only so there is never another Yuppie bar in New York until the end of days. Those who refuse to learn from history and all…
one word. creepy
I think if he is too socially inept to recognize that you are not reciprocating in sharing your personal stuff with him, and that he is missing your most likely, obvious signals of discomfort, then I think It is time to politely find yourself too busy to meet with him.
Nope. All the responses suck today, except FrannyO. You’re unemployed. He’s unemployed. I’m unemployed. And we can all use another friend. Doesn’t matter if he isn’t a cool kid. He could turn out to be a good friend to you. Or perhaps you could take a navel gazing break and be a good friend to him. If someone calls you a friend — even an internet friend – that’s a BFD. You should feel honored. And yes, you are obligated, even though you didn’t ask for this. Suck it up and be his friend. You will be better for it. Sorry for sounding all Oprahy-preachy.
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