From a regular reader who is awesome. I’m not sure she knows this about herself, which makes her like most women around here. WTF, ladies?
About 3 1/2 years ago, I quit one job, which I had spent 3 years at, and took another opportunity. After about a year and a half, I quit that job as well, because I was still really unhappy even though the job was better and didn’t have the same obvious pressures of the first one.
I was always overwhelmed and anxiety-ridden by the belief that I was terrible at my job — despite the fact that I have always gotten along well with coworkers and superiors, gotten very good reviews, etc. so it would at least superficially seem that I am OK — so I thought I would try and get into an arena where I have more natural talent, such as graphic design or computer/database-related work, in the hope that I could get past this self-doubt.
After one graphic design class, it became clear that I did not really have the fortitude to face another 4-year degree at 32, and my husband understandably did not relish the idea of paying for it when the career path promised less pay and no guarantee that I would actually enjoy the work.
After over 2 years of unemployment/basically being a housewife, which have passed frighteningly quickly and during which I have done a lot of “work on myself” (i.e. therapy), much of it specifically directed at my work-related issues, I have decided that it matters less what I do and more what my attitude is toward it. I also think that I would actually be much more effective in my field now than I was 2 years ago due to the aforementioned therapy.
My question is, is there any reasonable way to explain that 2-year gap and convince an employer that I am a good stable choice at this point in time? I’m thinking probably no, and am concerned that I will never get an interview again, but I wanted to see if any of your readers could help.
Yes, I know I am incredibly lucky that my husband is willing to support me, and I hate myself for that every day, so it would be great if people could refrain from pointing that out.
Wow, lady, what a story. You’ve got the makings of a good book. Drama. Suspense. Anxiety. Self-loathing. There’s an epiphany in there, too. Are you working on a manuscript? Is there anything you learned during the past two years that you can teach us? Because I’ve been out of work for over two years and I haven’t learned a darn thing.
I know you want to get back to work, but you won’t get hired if you walk into a recruiter’s office and feel the need to apologize or explain anything. This applies to life, too. If you’re explaining your actions or intentions, you’re done. Go home.
I know you are worried about the gaps in your resume. You were out of work for two years. Guess what? Join the club. The recession is the best thing to happen to job-hoppers in years. If you are asked to explain your time off, keep it brief. You took time off for your family. That’s it. They benefited from your therapy and self-introspection, right?
There is no reason to talk about your career ennui, hating yourself for having a husband who supports you (& what the hell is up with that?), or being focused on improving your mental health.
Stick to the facts, talk about your skills and accomplishments, and leave the narrative at home. You’ll know the interview is going well if the recruiter is doing most of the talking.
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I agree with everything that Laurie says. There’s really no point in my even commenting, because she covered it…but holy cow.
There are, like, a zillion points in this email in which you say nasty things about yourself. Stop that. There’s nothing wrong with you. EVERYONE struggles with these issues. You are normal. In fact, from your email, you’re pretty likable. I kinda want to smack this chick who’s hating on you…except it’s you. So you’ll have to smack her yourself.
Seriously–keep on with the therapy if you can afford it, because you’ve gotta get rid of that “I hate myself” thing. People can smell that, and it will sink you more surely then any gap in your resume. Plus, aside from that, it poisons you. That’s bad.
Laurie — I have to agree… WTF ladies, and WTF me? I read her post and thought, hmmm “I was always overwhelmed and anxiety ridden by my belief that I was terrible at my job” could have come straight from my fingers. I have been criticized in reviews about how self-critical I am, — and when you have no idea if you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing, I think it is much easier to fall into that self-loathing, uber-critical place. But that doesn’t get the job done.
I feel fortunate to have been blessed with insecurity enough to not quit to try to figure it all out. I try to focus on the list of things I know HAVE to be done, regardless of whether they put me on the right existential path. I don’t understand the compulsion to find self-loathing in a situation that may not be princess perfect despite it filling several needs at the time — whether it be growth and experience or simply a paycheck and insurance plan. And when the time comes that it is figured out and there is a corresponding opportunity, you jump at it. But knowing that I can make a difference even when I am struggling internally to find my way both gives focus and lets me sleep at night.
I know many men who feel the same way, — I do not know if they feel so hooked to compulsively internalize every little aspect of how what work they perform defines them. Maybe it is the dual pull of defining ourselves as women as well as in the workplace. Am I an independent woman? Am I/Will I be a good mother? Am I a strong partner? Can I live up to the expectations set by my mother/grandmother that I can do it all? Can I still be true to myself if I’m working so damn hard at being all that?
For “Regular Reader” – Laurie is spot on: No need to go into an explanation about self-loathing, self-doubt, trying to find yourself….just let the perspective employer know that you took time to focus on your family, get them healthy…whatever…state it simply with conviction and belief. As a recruiter, I never ask more detail about family or health related issues….and my Hiring Manager’s are people, so they either have been faced with family & health issues or know someone who has. And if you were good at your job and have skills they need, they’ll be wxcited that you are returning to the workforce.
For all Readers – but especially women who also have self-doubt….STOP defining yourself and measuring yourself against others or what you beleive others want you to be!
Create your own definition and then live every day measruing up to yourself.
During one of my own periods of uncertainty, I came across a refrigerator magnet from Emerson that resonated with me & I’ll share it, because when I return to that place of, “What the heck am I doing & why aren’t I measuring up”, I remember this:
“To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children, to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayl of false friends, to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others, to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch….to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeed!”
Make your day great!
I found it difficult to read this post because it felt like I was watching a self flogging session…too painful. Please, please stop the self deprecation, its destroying your life and career. It would benefit you to continue therapy as it appears that it was helpful to you and there is still more work to be done. You were probably doing a great job and it appears that you got along well with your co-workers, you do come through likeable in this note, but your knocking yourself over the head and its hurting you. You are your own worst enemy. At this point in the game, no one will blink an eye that you were out of work for 2 years, keep it simple and just state that you were out because you wanted to stay home for the kids or due to the economy….whatever you say, do NOT self deprecate!
A few suggestions for our contributor:
1. The only expectations that matter are your own!! You will NEVER please everyone, so you might as well just set high standards for yourself and exceed them.
2. ‘Cheif Household Officer’ is at least a $1,200/month occupation. You should tout your transferrable skills and build an interviewing strategy accordingly. Do not underestimate your ability to bullshit in this regard. People love creative thinkers.
3. Take care of your husband (if you know what I mean) and he will pay for anything! (speaking from experience).
Dave
No offense to David, but he isn’t a woman in the work force. You’d have to be one hell of a PR mistress to spin 2 years as a homemaker into transferable skills in the workplace.
That said, women of a certain (breeding) age have gaps of 1 or more years on their resume all the time- I’m one of them! For all a prospective employer knows, you’ve been dedicating time to starting a family…in my experience, they don’t ask.
What I’ve learned- to stop volunteering personal information. Period. Let them do the asking, and be confident that YOU are amazing and have MUCH to contribute.
Laurie, I agree with Kerry, you nailed it. I will say to the individual that wrote the letter: If you can’t feel good about yourself, you’ll never do a good job no matter what job it is. That is the cycle of anxiety you have to break. Be happy in your skin, and your more likely to be happy in your work (but no guarantee, just as about half of the people with jobs right now).
Awesome Regular Reader – you are understandably concerned about the gaps in your experience.
But deep underneath all the worry and anxiety, there was a statement of great value: It matters less what I do and more what my attitude is toward it. . If you can sell that in an interview, you’ll be snapped up in a second.
Right now, recruiters are inundated with people who are desperate-to-find-any-job-anywhere (who aren’t always suited to the one they’re looking for) and with a whole lot of college graduates with one eye on the break room and the other on Monster or CareerBuilder to snag their next job. Sell your varied experience as a benefit (cross-training, an understanding of different industries, cultures, demographics, etc.) and that you know what you want – and that you want to be THERE for more than a month – and they’ll respond positively.
Also, if you did any volunteering, took any classes or worked on any projects during your work sabbatical, those are always worth mentioning in an interview. I say that with total respect for the fact that running a home is hard work & a full-time job – you may not have had time to do those things. But often people do participate in classes or projects and don’t mention them in an interview b/c they didn’t get a paycheck for them. But often those add value to your paid experience, and show that you’re a well-rounded person.
If you’re really trying to win “Best Female Whiner of the Year”– buy your gown now cause you’re the ringer hands down!! What is it “If you think you can, you will– if you think you can’t, you won’t.” Stop already—
From a recruiter’s viewpoint– if you qualify per the minimum requirements? You’re in the running– but get ready to get paid less than someone with recent experience. Also– you need to look into your chosen field and find any advances that might have come up in the last two years– and quickly “self teach” yourself if that’s even possible. You’ll look on top of things and impress any recruiter or hiring manager as to your abilities. Do not expect training from companies or request it— makes you look like a baby needing it’s pacifier. If they offer training– great.
Good Luck—
P.S. – I agree with the others – confidence and contentment is incredibly important in an interview. And, well….everywhere.
And it does matter, to some degree, what you do as well as how you feel about it. I agree that you don’t need to get caught up in chasing a title or being in a competition with co-workers. But everyone deserves an environment where they’re respected and appreciated.
I know you’ve decided to return to your original field but I just have to add a side note regarding going back to school at 32. It’s never too late to go back to school. You can always take one class at a time if going full time is too much. I went back for a 2nd degree at 40 and graduated a year ago. If I can do it, you can too.
I have always struggled with the self doubt, “everyone is going to find out I’m not as smart or competent as they think I am” thing. You know what, it has made me a great employee because I’m always working to prove that I’m smart & competent, so I do a great job. My good friend has the same challenge and we support group eachother so that our “I may be fired for incompetency at any moment” pananoia does not take over. As a result, we’ve both steadily worked our way up the food chain to middle management in a Fortune 1000 company. Yay for us.
There’s nothing wrong with you except for the fact that you’re still focusing too much on what you think you’ve done wrong. When I am hiring I actually look for employees who have that healthy bit of self doubt because I have found that they are better employees than the people who think they do everything right and are great. Those are the people who’s bubbles I have to constantly burst when I point out that their work isn’t up to snuff, and then I have to deal with the arguing because they think they are so great that there can’t possibly be anything wrong with what they’ve produced. Ugh.
Please give me the employee who always thinks they have room to improve, they are actually a joy to work with because they are collaborative and always growing. This is you – embrace it and make it work for you.
I agree with PP, you need to spin your time at home as a break to manage family and then demonstrate how you ensured your skills did not fall behind during the break. Two years is not really that long, particularly because you had some solid professional experience before the break.
You can do it – now go get it done.
@Awesome Regular Reader–You are a brave woman to allow your story to be discussed in this forum. This is the BEST possible forum for it, but it can be a tough crowd who will give you blunt and honest feedback. I admire your willingness to accept our feedback.
I expect that everyone here experiences similar anxieties to yours. We all have self doubt. The way to overcome it is to just get yourself out there and take on some challenges.
And be prepared to fail. Yes, I mean that. Allow yourself to fall flat on your face in an excruciatingly embarrassing way. Then you can pick yourself up, dust yourself off and realize that you SURVIVED.
There was a self help book written several years ago, entitled, “Feel the Fear But Do It Anyway.” It wasn’t that good a book, but the title is gold. Fear doesn’t kill you unless you let it stop you.
I say get out there and try some interviews. Allow yourself some distance from the outcomes, meaning that you do your best to get the job, but if you don’t, no biggie. Move on to the next one. Eventually, you will get used to the process, and you will feel more competent and capable. As the other posters say, that is what wins the interview–Your comfort with yourself.
Good luck in your journey!
To Awesome Regular Reader and to Alex-
I have a 4 year resume gap in over 32 years of work experience, and I am ALWAYS asked about that gap, even though the gap is now more than 10 years old.
At first I tried to describe why I couldn’t find a job in the field I had just come from, and it turned into one of those dreaded narratives. I thought about and finally decided on a more creative (NOT dishonest!) answer: My children needed me home because they were struggling to adjust to middle school, and that was more important to me than work at the time.
That generally shuts them up. If that doesn’t shut them up and they keep asking, I tell them I did a lot of school volunteering and some contract legal work.
Now, kids in middle school didn’t start out to be the reason I actually stopped working right then (my oldest didn’t start middle school until 3 months after my previous job contract ended, so I didn’t know at first there was going to be a struggle), but it’s close enough. As others said, try for a positive spin on your gap without lying.
Don’t toss rotten tomatoes at me for saying this, but have you tried medication. This sounds like anxiety/depression that isn’t well controlled. It’s sometimes not a matter of “think positively” or “snap out of it” it’s a real, physical/biological disorder and nobody would tell you to “snap out” of a brain tumor. From the sound of your self-loathing you’re not out of the woods yet. Medication saved my life. it taught me how to be calm and happy. Now I can replicate that feeling on my own. It’s hard to describe to someone who has never gone through it. I would encourage you to explore grants and other options to continue your education and define yourself without your work. These are tough, tough times to
job search and I’d hate to see you place your self worth on job obtainment and fulfillment. Best of luck to you and above all: KEEP BEING AWESOME.
P.S @Laurie: licorice
Hey Alex -
I guess my wife is one hell of a PR Mistress! She found a job in 2009 by spinning 4 years of Domestic Strategy into transferrable skills that rewarded her a position among over 200 qualified applicants.
Never underestimate a Women’s creative drive….or assume a son, husband and father doesn’t understand a women’s perspective.
Cheers,
Dave
@Kerry I miss your career advice ALREADY.
@sarah Sounds like you are on the right path of getting these irrational fears nipped in the bud!
@Lou Thanks, that was nice.
@Latina HR I’m with you. I’m the queen of self-deprecation and a friend of mine told me to stop. It makes him uncomfortable when I make fun of myself. I was like, whoa, okay, that was a wake-up call. He also told me to learn how to take a compliment like an adult and I’m like, “Adults can take compliments? Really?”
We’re all broken. Even me. http://sadtrombone.com
@David Whoa, @kenruet disagrees with #3 and totally wants you banned from my blog.
@Alex “Stop volunteering personal information” is so good. I wish I had known this ten years ago.
@Puf I like being a little unhappy in my skin. It keeps me motivated in a weird way. I have to be part-sunshine, part-emo.
@Patrick For the love of all things holy, you need to be writing politics AND career advice. You make me look like an amateur. I’m constantly in awe of your writing.
@MattyMat ((ahem)) I am the biggest whiner of the year. Fact.
@Suz Good advice on school.
@Low I want you in my corner.
@BZ This is exactly why you read my blog. To chime in with your expert opinions. The rest of us are just guessing. You know.
@Joan I have a 4 year resume gap in over 32 years of work experience, and I am ALWAYS asked about that gap, even though the gap is now more than 10 years old. Jesus. Christ. I hate bad recruiters.
@Stacey No tomatoes here. I am pro-medication. Good call.
I am the letter writer–thanks to everyone for their advice. Some of it was a little hard to hear (though everyone was by and large so kind even when dishing out a little tough love), but I think mostly right on.
I am a little in awe that people took so much time to answer my question thoughtfully and it is great to also have the perspective of people on the hiring side. You guys are great.
I wasn’t sure if the letter writer was supposed to “reveal her identity” in this type of case, but I couldn’t stop myself from speaking up because Laurie’s and other thoughts were echoed rather strikingly when I posted on Facebook last week that I was applying for jobs and getting really anxious and overwhelmed. This spawned a 50-comment thread where good friends who I have known for many years shared their own job-hunting anxieties.
One friend is a very talented and experienced manufacturing engineer, yet finds just filling out applications to be so stressful that she avoids doing it. Another has her own business that is struggling a bit, and therefore hopes to fall back on her cosmetology degree for a while, but is putting this off because she is intimidated by applying for stylist positions–even with all of her experience not only in that field but in running a small business and as a computer and web programmer, not to mention that she is one of the smartest people I’ve ever known.
I know the job hunt is stressful for everyone, but this belief that we are incompetent is so pervasive. “WTF, ladies?” indeed. My friend joked that we all need to channel just enough Spencer Pratt that we go into interviews feeling like we are worthy of the job. Of course this could be a volatile and dangerous tactic and you run the risk of going full-blown asshole.
(by the way, @Stacey, thanks for what I consider to be a little bit of a wake-up call. I think I do need to revisit medication issues. And your advice to be cautious of basing self-worth on getting a job is key. Thank you. And again, thanks to everyone else as well.)
Another viewpoint – for the hiring manager perspective.
I have seen this before – covered hole in the resume with some bullschize – consulting self employment – or some made up story. In each case when I would ask about the self employment trip it became clear that they were just lazy.
I had one person who answered “I was getting my head out of my ass.” Did I ask follow up questions? Yep – a bunch. Did I hire? Yep – after digging in and figuring out if the attitude – the outward adjusted attitude changed. I also looked at their core behavior in the interview – and when I had them come in and do a full day of work for me – paid. I watched to see if the core bahavior would kick in – and if they were willing to drop the baggage and have fun.
Did they work out? 2 years of great service – but the same old doubts came back and back. I knew they were there, and would coach around them – but in the end – they pulled the plug.
Oh, and she was a woman.
But why did she really pull the plug? The doubts came back in her mind because the “customer” she supported changed from a nurturing kind “father” to a dishonest “dick”.
My point – if you can support it, be brutally honest. If the hiring manager can’t handle it – don’t work for them. Get your self a manager – leader who “gets” what you need.
Thanks for sharing your story – there are so many that have that same story out there – different details – but same outcome.
DKS
I thought that this article and the subsequent comments were wonderful.
I did a paper back in college. I con’t remember the class or the professor and I am sure the actual paper has long since decomposed in a landfill somewhere. But I remember the overhwhelming frustration I felt when I was doing the research.
I was writing about whether there was any difference in ability to do mathmatics between genders. I had read several studies that indicated that women were able to do math as well as men. In my research I didn’t find any credible evidence to the contrary. So that is what I wrote about. The disturbing part came in an article which talked about how our society teaches this myth to our girls, at a young age and they believe it. I kept digging deeper and became more and more frustrated. How can we as a society intentionally cripple 51% of our population by training them to believe something that is absolutely not true?
To this day, I haven’t found an answer, but we do it still. I am not a woman, so I can’t speak to some of the issues of self doubt expressed by Laurie and others. I won’t try.
There is a book by Judith Warner, “Perfect Madness: Motherhood in the Age of Anxiety”. I have read it, though as one who is a middle aged, balding, single, childless, male, who is extremely happy and fulfilled person, I am not her demographic. I do like a well written tome however, and I bought it based on a glowing review and my previous interest in the math stuff.
By the end of the book I came to the conclusion that within the various social circles that women travel, when they are without husbands or boyfriends in tow, that they beat each other about the head and shoulders psychologically until everyone feels like crap.
In an interview of a female professional tennis player, at last years Wimbeldon, the woman lamented that their locker room wasn’t fun like the men’s was. Her brother, also on the tour, regaled her with the stories of the guys hanging out after the matches, playing video games, teasing one another, and challenging one another. Sure there were rivaleries, but ultimately there was brotherhood. She described the women’s locker room as a bunch of ‘catty’ women keeping to themselves and generally hating everyone else.
I might be wrong in my assessment. It just seems to me that many women are there own worst enemies, and when they get together, that negative energy multiplies until they are overwhelmed with doubt and self loathing.
Over the last 12 days I have written a blog about woodworking. A hobby that is generally filled with guys. The comments I have received have been supportive, informative, and often funny. That is how we roll ladies. Stop beating yourselves up. We think you are pretty cool, flaws and all. And you can do MATH Damit!!!
@DKS, @Brian Meeks–This was turning into a book, so I wrote a blog post about it instead. Thanks for the additional feedback. Very thought-provoking.
@DKS–just lazy? Ouch.
I will say that I would obviously never fabricate consulting work or anything like that. But I think the explanation of focusing on my family is fair enough. I identify a lot with the employee you described and I hope I can avoid falling into this trap again if and when I find another job.
@Brian Meeks–I really appreciate your positive comments and you are right, it’s crazy and sad that some girls still don’t feel confident about math and science in 2010. The thing is, I think it’s a double-edged sword for women. We are taught on the one hand to be polite, pleasant, nonthreatening, and non-confrontational (I still hear friends admonishing their young daughters to “act like a young lady” or saying “should little girls use words like that?” or praising them for being a good mommy to their dolls, whereas in the meantime their brothers are more likely to be helping Daddy build something), and it often is indeed beneficial in interactions with men to not appear too crass or overconfident.
But then at school and work we are told to all of a sudden become perfectly confident and go get anything we want, even though if you actually do that–say, by becoming a manager fairly high up in the hierarchy–you have to be strong enough to put up with negative comments and speculation on everything from your appearance to your sexuality to your foul (“unladylike,” though we don’t usually say that out loud anymore) mouth to whether you are neglecting your kids by being a workaholic to the fact that you are not very “nice.” I am not “blaming” men for this at all and certainly not individual men (in fact the concept of blame seems kind of nonsensical here), it just seems to be a confusing dichotomy that still exists in society.
Oh look, it was still a book.