Patrick is looking for a job and writes,
I agree with you, Laurie – there is no magic shortcut. People have to be inventive and work their ass off to get noticed. But we
Punk Rock HR Question: Laid Off and Pessimistic
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Interesting that you should bring up the anger that ensues when things are as bad as they are. I posted on this topic a short while ago. While pessimism is not the way to go, venting a little anger can actually be empowering.
http://careerguyd.blogspot.com/2008/12/get-mad-as-hell.html
Totally agree with Patrick – it’s either entry-level or management, and it’s hard to say “Look, I will take the entry-level job, at the entry-level salary and proceed to wow you with my brilliance until you can bump me up to the level to which I have become accustomed.”
From my experience, I keep hearing “overqualified” – a lot. Even with my Associate’s degree, I am “overqualified” for more things than I would have thought. It’s not about the amount of money any more. There was a time I would have held out on something below a certain level, but now that’s not so much.
I think companies are nervous to a point, and worried that as soon as things pick up again (which they will, eventually) I’d be off like a prom dress and on to the next thing, which might not necessarily be the case. At least in the area I live, it feels like people are not willing to take chances, large or small, when it comes to hiring.
I’m working hard to maintain my own level of optimism, but it’s hard to do with doors not even opening, much less closing in your face. (I applied at CVS and didn’t get a call back – how sad is that?)
Here are the things I can tell you are turn-off to me as an interviewer.
Leave the cynicism at the door. If you have any bad feelings about, your previous employer, the fact they let you go, the number of interviews you have already gone on, how long you have been unemployed, or any other non-positive feelings, shed them before walking through my door. Find another outlet for those frustrations like a blog (use a pseudo name to avoid it coming up if I am researching you.) While this doesn
Rage and cynicsm have their places, but don’t let them rob you of your optimism. Sometimes it is very hard to dig down deep and find that optimism, but dude, you truly have to do it, find the things that make you most happy in life and let those be your points of light (for me, there are two things that I hold on to: no matter how bad things get, no one can take my birthday away, and no matter what my dog Vader will stick with me).
The reason you have to be optimistic, is your optimism and enthusiam will be contagious. As human beings we are social creatures and part of that means we are prone to “mirroring” each other, particularly when we first meet (think “interview”). If you are optimistic and positive that emotional level will more often than not be answered in kind, and in a positive fashion. Here’s a real secret (not like my potentially exaggerated secrets yesterday): regardless of your experience, people hire people that they like, and that they want to be around. Be likeable, be positive, and remember Patrick, no one can take your birthday away either.
I’m Jimmmy, and I’m totally down with Karma.
I don’t know if anger and cynicism can help with a job search necessarily, but they nonetheless can be useful, I think, if channeled in the right ways.
You can use your frustration with the way things are to motivate yourself to learn new skills, branch out and make contacts in areas where you haven’t before, start a freelance or side business that you can eventually build into your own company…the list goes on and on. All of these will help you, even if indirectly.
You don’t always have to play the hand you’re dealt. Sometimes, the best thing to do is kick over the table.
It’s always easier said than done, but cynicism and rage will rarely (if ever) take you to a good place. Conversely, suppressing, denying or ignoring those emotions — which are perfectly valid, under the circumstances — is even worse.
I’m in no position to offer advice, but what works for me is to acknowledge the feeling without indulging in it, and to re-focus on some positive step that I can take immediately — no matter how small. Physical activity can be a huge plus here, as the psycho-physiological benefits of exercise are pretty well-documented (and 100% free).
Kicking over the table is hella emotionally gratifying in the short run, no doubt about it. But all you have when then dust settles is a broken table and a mess to clean up.
@ Nick, and anyone thinking about substitute teaching:
So, you want to try substitute teaching? Six hours of letting kids watch a movie, and then you’re home in time to catch Oprah? Sounds good, huh?
Substitute teaching is like no temp job you’ve ever had. There will be a lesson plan. Do you know how to read lesson plans? It may be a subject you are not familiar with. Can you project confidence and control in the midst of chaos? This gig involves public speaking. Lots of it. And there will be dozens of pairs of eyes, watching you, ready, willing, and able to point out every mistake.
There will be children. They are not just small adults, they are individuals in the process of learning about themselves, the world, and how to interact with it (this goes double for teenagers, who may think they are adults and even look kind of like adults).
There will be parents. They don’t care if you are just a sub. You are in charge of their child for a goodly portion of the day, and by God, if you do something they even think is a little bit out of line, you will hear about it. They will also ask you to just change their little sweetum’s grade, Sweetum didn’t mean to turn it in four weeks late without spellchecking it.
There will be other teachers. These are people who have spent anywhere from two to twelve years in graduate school, learning how to be a better, stronger, faster teacher. They have to deal with the lesson plans, the children, the parents, the administration, and the bureaucracy. 50% of teachers wash out of the profession in the first three years. These teachers? Are the survivors. Your MBA does not impress them.
These teachers are also your clients. They are the ones who will call the sub service. They will be asked if there is a specific sub they wish to have first dibs.
Did you market yourself as a professional educator, dressed for work and able to follow directions and maintain classroom discipline? Did you network, providing business cards with your name, qualifications, and sub number? Were you respectful of the front office people and thank the principal for the opportunity?
Or did you schlep in, explain how this is only until you get on your feet, sneer at the glitter and the cutout paper trees, and complain all through lunch about the quality of the cafeteria food?
Sincerely,
Mary Sue, M.Ed. (Cross-Cultural Teaching), now a purchasing agent for a hospital, because she’s one of that 50% that washed out.
Patrick,
It’s tough, and as you know there’s no magic answer. Do what works for you – whatever moves you forward. Continue to learn. Use this to try completely new things. Spend some time in a public libary, reading stuff you wouldn’t otherwise read. Go to community events you wouldn’t normally do. Keep your brain focused on stuff. Whatever stuff turns your crank. Make it low-cost stuff, this is not the time to start an expensive new hobby, but there is a world of stuff to learn and experience. Your career (and paycheck) may be on hold, but your life isn’t.
Thanks everyone – these are all great suggestions.
The great irony of all of this is that the job I had before was, in fact, writing about job searching and careers. So I had a full stash of inventive tools to try out. I’m just surprised how ineffective some of them have been.
I’m not giving in to defeat, or kicking over the table, or filled with cynicism….I think if anything, I’m a bit fearful, because I feel like I’m running out of places to look. And a little part of me still mourns the loss.
@ HRGoodWitch – I agree this is an awesome path to take and I am indeed using my time to learn new skills.
@ Nick – Great advice all around. I’m working on the blog (pseudonomously, as you suggested).
@ Kelly – I would TOTALLY apply at CVS and Target, because work is work and is worthwhile in my eyes, but they are so NOT hiring. Many retail outlets here aren’t even taking applications (which I can at least appreciate knowing in advance they’re not hiring). This is the scary part, for me.
Laurie, thanks for throwing this out to the universe. No matter what they say about you on the Interwebz, you’re OK with me.
Speaking as a hiring manager who’s seen a lot of “overqualified” candidates for entry-level positions, I have one additional bit to throw in; something specific I’ve seen a lot of lately.
If you do get called for an interview for a position under what your previous experience has been, tread carefully when you frame why you threw your name into the hat for that particular job.
As an interviewer, I’m fine with hearing that it’s not what you’d normally seek in new employment, but the economy has left you with little opportunity at the level you’re accustomed to. Just make sure to qualify that: “because of that, I’ve re-evaluated my career, and feel that I’ll benefit from starting fresh.”
There are tons of pitfalls here – it’s very easy to sound desperate with a line like that, which is an instant turnoff to a lot of interviewers. It’s also hard to sound convincing. Those who go this route need to really sell your potential commitment to the opportunity that’s in front of you. “Of course I’ll be interested in interviewing for postings that arise, but an introduction to your company at the entry level will only make me that much stronger a candidate when those opportunities present themselves.”
I’ve seen several candidates who left us with the impression that they’d bolt the minute the job market hits its next upswing, but I’ve also had several who were able to successfully sell us on their loyalty, at least for the short term.
They came in, showed us what they could do, and some of them are back up at the level they were at before the last round of layoffs now.
@Careerguy Your link is broken but your point is well made!
@Kelly I thought it would be nice to meet people in NC so I applied for jobs at Target and Starbucks. I’ve been rejecetd by both Targets and haven’t heard back from Starbucks — so now I’m just planning on volunteering my time to meet people and keep my skills fresh. Sheesh. Keep calm & carry on INDEED.
@Nick I love, “Don’t seem desperate.” That’s such an important subtext — but how do you avoid seeming desperate when you are?
@Jimmy You are both wise and cracking my shit up.
@Tim A-f**king-men. Kick the table over with your size 6 doc martens. (Oh wait, that’s me.)
@Kentropic Do you have a mess to clean up — or a new reality to face?
@Mary Sue I went into HR because it’s kind of like substitute teaching but pays more. A little more. Not much.
@Good Witch Thoughtful advice. Thanks!
@Patrick You have a community of like-minded souls out there. Laurie’s blog is like group therapy for the unemployed and shiftless.
@SM That’s a blog post for you!
@ Laurie: good point, and stories like this seem to be all over the news just now. Thanks for the nudge!
Hi Patrick,
Sorry to hear about your crappy job search experience. My view is from the other side of the pond, so may not apply in the States, but hear me out.
Even though hundreds of thousands may have been laid off recently, and hiring is drying up, some industries and companies are still hiring. And at more than the ‘extreme’ ends of graduate-senior manager.
The people I hear this from? Recruiters and some employers who have had jobs advertised for months, with no ‘right candidates’. These jobs are decent 2-to-10-years-in type roles which are usually snapped up.
The reason they’re not filling them? The candidates they want are too scared to leave their current jobs. And the newly laid off (usually financials in London, so different sectors) are not presenting themselves in a way that makes any sense for them to be hired to these roles.
I would second Sadistic’s advice about presentation etc (though you probably knew that given your background…) and also question what sort of role you have been looking at and where you have been looking? I suspect that Starbucks and Target are inundated with people who view them as a ‘last resort’. But what about the professional jobs that seem less obvious? And what about the ones not being advertised with the ‘big guys’? (all the ones I’m aware of are with small end niche recruiters and advertised directly by employers)
Folks, anger is the lowest “usable” emotion that can still be channeled to productive ends, but that’s irrelevant if you’re underlying perspective is that the world sucks because it’s unfair.
If you believe you’ve been unjustly screwed, then you won’t be able to “leave your cynicism at the door” of an interview any more than you could switch your love for someone on or off. You’re emotion will be directed at something outside your control, making you feel powerless to stop it.
On the other hand, if your perspective is that the world is a big place where sh*t happens, and that your job is to do the best with what you’ve got, then suddenly concepts like “fair” become irrelevant. You play the breaks, for better or worse, no different than a video game or sport. Laid off? Think “Unlucky bounce!” Now compartmentalize the pressure you feel (because it’s the 4th quarter and time’s running down!) and get back to playing the game. (Note I didn’t say suppress it, I said compartmentalize it.)
Now, you can go from interview to interview, and when you get angry, it’ll be anger at YOURSELF for not adequately selling your value. For not getting yourself noticed. For not putting yourself where the action is… For not seeing the winning shot yet. You can channel the compartmentalized stress into productive, self-directed change.
This is a different mentality than what most people are accustomed to, but it does work, and in today’s economy, you need to cultivate it… fast.
It’s tough to hear “overqualified” because the truth is you just want the job and its like if you don’t care that you’re overqualified why should they?
for some, the job market after 9/11 was very difficult. It was hell for me….newly arrived in the USA. I had to completely change my direction in order to get a job. And for years afterward people questioned my move from marketing to business development. What I have learned along the way is that the best thing that you can do for yourself is to spend a little time each day learning about the area of business that you are applying for. Or become more of an expert in your area of expertise. Ask yourself how you can add more value than someone else. I know things are tougher this time, and a lot of people who are struggling were luckily not effected during the last downturn…so they are panicked, rightfully so. Being angry won’t help – unless you can turn that into “drive”. Good luck. and remember “we must be the change we wish to see in the world.” – gahndi
SO WHAT’S WRONG WITH UNEMPLOYMENT?
Even though I have an Electrical Engineeering Degree and an MBA, I have been unemployed for over half my adult life. I am now 59 years old – 60 in June. Being unemployed all those years helped me a lot.
Whenever friends or acquaintances tell me that they have either got fired or laid off their jobs, my response is,
@Seiden: “You can channel the compartmentalized stress into productive, self-directed change.”
Yep. This is what I meant by kicking over the table and channeling your anger — I can see now that I view the metaphor differently than others and should have made it more clear.
I disagree, though, about anger being the least useful emotion to drive change. Anger, when directed into determination, endurance, and constructive activities, is very powerful and is the source of a lot of positive, transformative change — not just on a societal level, but and individual one as well. You’re right that you can’t go around thinking the world owes you anything and that you can’t let it show. I think we’re actually on the same page here, just wording it differently.
@Ernie
I don’t know exactly how to frame what seems wrong in my mind about your post without going into a rant that is completely inappropriate for this forum.
However, what I will say is that there are decided, clear, and unavoidable negative contexts to being unemployed. It’s fabulous for you that you were able to save lots of money, make investments, and so on and so forth so periods of unemployment do not affect you in the way they do others. That’s swell.
But I am a reasonably responsible adult, not overly shallow (and face it, we’re all a little shallow in some way – it’s called being human.) The things I’ve dealt with in my life are different than yours, and I think it would be much more productive to focus a little less on talking down to and adding more guilt on those who have not had the same situations, opportunities, or whatever.
Hi, my name is Kelly and I am a responsible adult who is unemployed and has a real problem with that.
@ Mary Sue
Thanks for the “reality” look at substitute teaching, although it seems exaggerated. From your description, it doesn’t really seem any more difficult than a challenging Management gig. The bottom line is that if you are a good manager with good people skills, a substitute teaching job should not pose a problem.