Comments on: Queen Bees, Sexism, and Human Resources

By: Queen Bees at the Office « The Mama Bee

Queen Bees at the Office « The Mama Bee — Wed, 06 May 2009 11:19:31 +0000

[...] Punk Rock HR asks whether the Queen Bee syndrome really exists. [...]

By: Corey J Feldman

Corey J Feldman — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:43:52 +0000

Personally I think if we focus on short term goals we only have short term success.

Maybe if we foster an environment of growth, we will have less backstabby behavior or get some positive turnover – I don’t know maybe that is a pipe dream…

Thanks for the post, Laurie – you rock as usual. I need to go mentor someone who came into my office while I was eating lunch and I only gave them a quick answer. Time to go use more nouns and verbs and explain the reasons for some processes.

By: Laurie

Laurie — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:20:01 +0000

@Gary Thanks for the comment!

@RSM I like the idea of recognizing behaviors and trying to work them into the normal processes. Don’t fight it — accept it and move forward.

@Alora I think you’re right — managerial inadequacies aren’t related to gender.

@Abby This is an awesome blog post for you!

@WebCX My best boss was a Gen Xer who is 7 yrs older than me (I’m late GenX) and I will also be indebted to her, too.

@Corey But if you are managing people you should always help them grow. I think this is ideal, but what if you just help them do a really good job in the short-term? Why must we always focus on developing the next generation of leaders — the ones who will stab us in the back and replace us at our weakest moments?

By: Corey J Feldman

Corey J Feldman — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:33:41 +0000

I do think it is real; it is typically engendered by the cultural inequities that women face. It similar, well not just similar it is actually abuse. Many victims of abuse grow up to be wonderful caring people, others become abusers themselves.

If you manage people you should be a mentor. I am sure there is an exception to every rule but I can

By: webcx

webcx — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:58:24 +0000

I guess I’m a Gen-Y-er, but the boss at my first professional job was a Gen-X-er. She mentored me from my first day, and I’ll forever be indebted to her. She believed in me when I didn’t believe in myself. Of course, she was replaced by a QB, and I got out of dodge ASAP.

By: Abby

Abby — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:28:27 +0000

I work in a small office with ALL women. When I tell people that, their first response is usually something along the lines of “Oh, and how’s that working for you?” with a smirk. I think the assumption is that women working together = cattiness and some version of the Queen Bee syndrome.
Sure it can get a little ugly around here from time to time, but coming from someone who worked for only men for my first few years of employment, working for/with women was a much-needed change. Here’s why:
1. Women tend to be more straightforward. They don’t beat around the bush when there’s a problem and they’ll be the first to congratulate you (sometimes with a hug)when you’ve done something right.
2. They listen to you. Studies show that women are a) better listeners than men and b) more empathic in their response.
3. They want to see you succeed. Our company President took great interest in my career, even before she became my boss! When placed in the right employment scenario, women utilize their nurturing capabilities to help their teammates succeed.
4. They never forget a birthday. ‘Tis true…and they’ll actually get you gifts that you want and like.

There have been times where I yearn for my days with the non-communicative dudes- there are certain days/times of the month you don’t want to step foot in our office! But for the most part, we laugh, joke and have our own special “girl’s club” that I’m glad to be a part of…

By: Alora

Alora — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:30:11 +0000

I think your third point is most accurate: I think it is a failing of leadership, regardless of gender. Coming from IT, I am in a male-centric and dominated environment. And while I have been lucky enough to have some exceptional leaders, part of what makes them “exceptions” is that they were in the minority. Most of them didn’t know how to mentor anymore than the women you describe.

While I think that women are raised to behave (especially towards other women) in ways that make the “Queen Bee” notion seem fitting, I do not buy that the underlying cause of that particular managerial inadequacy is more prevalent in female leaders than in male ones.

By: RMSJr.SPHR

RMSJr.SPHR — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:56:33 +0000

So I have these questions:

Does the Queen Bee syndrome really exist?

I started by looking at the provided wiki link. The syndrome does exist, albeit in a gender neutral form. The QB’esque may be more predominant in HR due to imbalanced gender demographics.

Is it sexist to suggest that it exist?

No. Of course we could always dilute the impact of the term through political correctness and pretend. The valid concern remains whether we are deliberately politely precise or use a more emotionally charged label.

Does the Queen Bee syndrome exist but is it mislabeled? Is it just an example of failed leadership

By: Gary Patton

Gary Patton — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:36:09 +0000

Hey Laurie;

Nicely said! And I agree that Queen Beeism exists in ALL organizations where there are successful or strong women.

As you define its principal distinguishing mark, however, might it be a phenomenon/syndrome manifested by both women and men?

What might we call men who fail to realize that they’ll not be promoted in good organizations until they grow their own replacement?

Blessings!

@GaryFPatton in Toronto

By: Laurie

Laurie — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:10:47 +0000

@Ann No I haven’t read the book. I’ll check it out from my local library. I can relate to the ‘cringe’ aspect because several of my work environments have been LORD OF THE FLIES for HR chicks. Very sad.

@Mark It’s tough because every bad leader makes it harder for the next generation to succeed. The stench of sexism is all over ‘em. Good insights. Thanks.

@Jimmy It’s so hard to see mentoring as an investment. How do you measure ROI? In a stupid environment where arbitrary measurements are key, mentoring shows no immediate return on investment.

@nelking I like how you frame this — it’s a lack of leadership, ethics, and values. It can be gender specific, but more often, it’s institutional failures that drive much of these problems.

@GenX I think you’re absolutely right about this being a generational thing. I do my best, try to remember that a rising tide lifts all boats, and hope that I’m helpful. I adhere to the No Asshole rule. What else do you want?

@Jenn I’m with you on all of that, but I can’t believe it’s 2009 and we’re still fighting these same battles with other women. Mostly it’s just depressing.

@Michael Very good point about turf syndrome. Totally accurate, indeed.

@Mouse Two things: it’s awesome that you’re back in school & I also wonder how much academia forces us to regress into stupid behaviors. I went to graduate school for three weeks to be a teacher and the people in there — my age — acted like we were back in high school. Christ, there is no hope for humankind.

@Daisycutter That’s a nice take on respecting the Queen Bee. Very compassionate and generous.

@Jason I love this advice. It’s awesome. I wonder if this is how people deal with me to get what they want. Now I’m looking out for it… and I’ll punish people when I think they’re patronizing me.

@Jackbuilt I don