I have a backlog of email messages about relationships, love, and work. I am in no way qualified to answer any of these questions beyond a simple observation, but I like to think about life and its messiness.
- How do I meet the right guy at work?
- I’m getting a divorce and I work 60 hours/week. How do I meet someone?
- My soon-to-be-ex-wife thinks she’s entitled to half of my 401k because she is a bitch. What are my rights?
- I just got out of a bad relationship and I want to focus on my career. What’s the best way to get started?
There’s more. Tons more. I spent a decade in Human Resources, and while I’m not Oprah, it doesn’t take a rocket science to answer some simple questions about work.
- Trying to meet the right guy at work is a stupid way to kill your career. Do your job. If you meet someone at work, great. If you don’t, that’s okay — because you’re getting a paycheck to work.
- If you are getting divorced and working sixty hours/week, you should probably examine your priorities before you look for another relationship.
- Your ex-wife may be entitled to part of your 401k, but don’t call her a bitch. That makes you seem like a bitter loser even if she is a bitch.
- You just got out of a bad relationship and want to focus on your career? Why don’t you take a break and focus on yourself?
As much as employment lawyers want to remove risk and sanitize the workforce, we can’t remove the human element. Coworkers date. People break-up and cry. Supervisors say stupid things. Humans are foolish and silly.
Sometimes I still overreact to my personal life as if the events are part of one big employee relations issue. I wonder if other HR people overreact, too? Do you overstate the risk at work and cramp the style of your employees? Can you sap the fun out of a three-ring circus? Do you bring your HR attitude home and ruin the fun for other people?
Let me know.
{ 30 comments… read them below or add one }
Interesting thoughts. I work in an industry where there are lots of people who are married or dating both within our company but also with people from competitors. If we took the straight line I have taken in other companies it just wouldn’t work, we would lose half our workforce.
I think there is an element of over sanitising the workplace, but I also believe we need to remember it is just that, “a place of work” and that makes it different to home, a bar or the gym. There are boundaries that are required to ensure everyone is happy. One persons idea of acceptable could be another persons idea of hell.
Personally I am a very private person at work. I don’t reveal much because I need to keep a level of distance. That doesn’t mean being cold, but knowing the boundaries. I can’t go and get steaming with colleagues because of who I am and what I do and hell it would probably cramp their style too. Sometimes I need to remember to drop this mask in my personal life and let loose a little I guess.
I overreact to my personal life as well, but I don’t think I bring my HR attitude home only because I haven’t been in it that long. Heck I don’t think I even have an HR attitude yet. I think it’s the other way around though. I bring my emotional skills (or lack thereof) to work. I am too much of an “underdog” champion. I am opinionated and need to keep a reign on that, but that comes from the personal me, not the HR me. I try to champion the people who never have anyone in their corner. Of course, half the time it never gets anywhere anyway. I would never survive in corporate HR, I would get eaten alive. I like my non-profit, semi-liberal little organization.
Getting to this “love” issue…people need to take a chance on love where they find it. If it’s in a work situation it just makes it more of a challenge but you can’t keep people from falling for each other. I really don’t think anyone should actively look for love at work or take a job somewhere based on the dating prospects. That usually backfires into something really messy.
I am sometimes the “fun sucker”. I think it is my safety background, not my HR background that does that though. At work, I mostly just try to keep people from sleeping together in the buildings (i worked with 24 hr shift paramedics, some of whom were dating or married and this was a constant problem). I don’t think people should find a job based on the dating prospects. That’s creepy. Do your job then go home. Find a new love at work? That’s just bonus.
Where are the emails asking how to keep that affair that started at work from interfering with the family life?
@teresahrgirl – termination comes to mind, but I prefer not to date where I work. I wont even mention how ticked off my wife would be if I was sleeping around at work.
In someways I am the opposite at home. I have a silly side which I *mostly* keep under wraps at work and/or professional settings, which seems to make it come out even more at home. I can’t speak for all HR types, but I don’t overstate risk at work. Our job is to present as accurate an assessment of risk as possible and recommend the best risk/reward ratio for our companies goals and objectives. Up until having kids I played very hard and fast with those ratio’s in my personal life, in other words I did I a lot of really stupid things.
@Laurie I am a little surprised you said “overreact to my personal life as if the events are part of one big employee relations issue.” If there is one thing I try to take into my personal life that I learned from HR and specifically ER is to not overreact. Our job is to help operations/management/employees see when they are overreacting. Or job is to ask the right questions and understand the bigger picture before we react.
Trying to warn people against getting involved in romance at work is like warning a mouse about grabbing the cheese from a mousetrap. Yeah it smells good and looks tasty, but you have to be a really smart (or lucky) mouse to walk away, cheese-in-hand, unscathed.
For the guy looking to keep his ex-wife out of his 401k: You may be entitled to half of her 401k as well. Perhaps when you were together, it might have been wise to make sure her retirement funds were getting contributions, too.
By the way, I can suck fun out of a 5-ring circus. When people know you’re in HR, it doesn’t matter how many pints of Guinness they’ve had, they still watch their tongues.
@ JohnC – LOL! So true!
I guess being a counselor makes me a little more qualified to answer questions about relationships, love, and work, Laurie. But honestly, I would answer them the same way as you and your HR colleagues have: Use common sense.
When it comes to love and relationships, though, people lose any sense of common sense. Mix it up with work and you could be playing Russian Roulette with your career.
I know that you cannot completely remove risk and sanitize the workforce, but someone has to keep the perspective. I have worked in situations where the relationship element totally turned the workplace hostile, and it is no fun.
And my experiences have been in workplaces filled with other colleagues who have the qualifications to answer the questions. They seem to do well in answering them for others, but not themselves.
Some people meet their soul mate through the course of doing their jobs. That is wonderful. If it happens to you, be prepared to make some tough decisions. If you cannot keep the boundaries in a way that makes the workplace comfortable for you, your partner and those around you, some changes will have to be made.
I think that people who deliberately use the workplace to court love are courting disaster. They do it because the “danger” element heightens their sexual appetites. I say let them know the natural consequence of courting danger and taking risks–losing your job.
And yes, if you are working 60 hrs a week, you have no time for a relationship.
@TheHRD Where’s my British dictionary? Go and get steaming?
@HRHooligan Here’s the conundrum facing some readers: if they don’t look for love at work, they’ll never find anyone because they spend too much time at work. I feel for those people because they believe in love. Coming from a woman who’s been with her husband for over a decade: love is great, but focus on friendship. That can lead to love — or it can lead to great relationships that have value, too.
@Teresa Whoa, I would never want to stop people from sleeping together. Gross. You poor woman. I don’t want that kind of knowledge about anyone.
@JohnC None of those emails. Yet. Interesting. Do you have an opinion on this?
@Corey Let me clarify. When someone I know in my personal life does something stupid, I can flash forward and understand all the ramifications of his/her behaviors. I can see exactly what they did wrong and how it will pan out. So I’ll try to coach them, or guide them, and they don’t want any of that — they want to be stupid and tell me about it as a friend, sister, cousin, etc. They’re not looking for HR guidance, but I can’t help but go WHOA SLOW DOWN HERE DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU’RE DOING??? It doesn’t make me the warmest and fuzziest person in my family, that’s for sure.
@HRPuter Good point on her 401k, too! Also, people always want to ask me for HR horror stories and while I’m happy to oblige, it’s sometimes not fun for me to tell the story about a guy who stalks a coworker because she’s just reciprocating his feelings at work.
@BZTat I’m so heartless. When people at work do stupid things in the name of love, I remind them that they are paid to work and they are not paid to be an asshole who’s in love and making poor decisions. I’m all for finding companionship, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to say to someone, “Grow up.”
If you’re getting a divorce and working 60 hrs a week, not only do you not have time for a relationship, you’re not ready to start dating yet. Wait until the divorce is final. Why do you want to throw an innocent bystander into the middle of your divorce? I wouldn’t date anyone who hasn’t been divorced for at least a year.
I think, from an employee viewpoint, as well as an HR viewpoint, you “can’t stop the motion of the ocean”, but get ready to deal with any consequences if there are any at your workplace. I think the older you get, the better you can deal with a relationship that might not work out– when you’re young– everything seems like the end of the world. I, personally, don’t like to date where I work because of the “don’t shit where you eat” factor— but if it’s just a situation I can’t turn down– I’d go for it. You only live once!
I met my husband at work. We’ve been married almost seven years and have both changed jobs since but I wouldnt change that decision for anything in this world. But Laurie, like you said, I wasnt looking for love when I found him; I was focused on work, mostly.
I have been known to bring an HR attitude home but in my defense I live ten mins from work so doesnt have time to seep out. Some good things have followed me home from my career in HR, like being a good level headed listener and the ability to think and analyze a situation before I speak. The dude above that questions giving half of his 401k to his wife probably needs to learn that trait.
I can flash forward and understand all the ramifications of his/her behaviors. I can see exactly what they did wrong and how it will pan out. So I’ll try to coach them, or guide them, and they don’t want any of that — they want to be stupid and tell me about it as a friend, sister, cousin, etc.
Try being a counselor, and meeting people in social venues where they want to tell you their whole sordid tale of woe. I get, “You’re a counselor? Maybe you can counsel me!” all the friggin’ time.
@Suz Whoa, that’s good advice.
@MattyMat Motion of the ocean? OMG, hilarious.
@adowling When I’m doing HR right with Ken, I’m listening and then advising in a way that doesn’t seem intrusive. When I’m doing it wrong, I’m being bossy. I’m just so darn good at being bossy.
@BZ I cannot imagine. This is why you should tell people, “I’m an artist. I paint cats.” BAM.
@Laurie Yes, I see what you mean. Guilty as well. My brain is trained to follow through and see the possible consequences, try and figure out the route of the problem, and offer a solution. Sometimes people just want an ear, or someone to agree with them, not offer a solution. It can be hard to turn that off.
I’m taking half of my ex’s 401K and it’s totally because I am aa bitch!
@MattyMat: AMEN to “don’t shit where you eat”! I adhere to that mantra.
I think the real problem is that most of the time, worker ants sling the “love” word about when its only lust as evidenced by the high breakup rate, never mind the resulting messiness, uneasy atmosphere, gossip, etc.
Hmmm…interesting. We don’t really put restrictions on romantic relationships at work- so long as it doesn’t affect your work and you don’t get hansy pansy on company time- it’s fine by us.
We have several employees who’ve met here, married and are starting a family and very rarely have we had personal issues getting in the way of work.
Personally, I work in a family business (my husband’s) and his mom is the Managing Director, his stepdad’s the GM and he’s the IT manager/the-go-to-guy-for-everything-under-the-sun and well i’m the HR person. When I get peeved at my hubby I have to get over it real quick because I can’t bring it to work with me so that’s helped me to resolve whatever issues we have ALOT faster so we’re happier for it
As far as the other family members go, I leave work at work and home at home- I don’t let any disagreements about work affect my relationship with my in-laws (well it hasn’t happened yet and I hope it stays that way).
@JohnC the employees were married to each other and weren’t sleeping with other people. But… I will tell you that their relationship started with them cheating on their spouses with one another, but that was before I worked there. And small local governments never terminate anyone unless there is political motivation or money involved. Which is why I quit
I sometimes DO wear my HR hat home and ruin the fun, pop the balloons, spoil the milk, or whatever… My wife will testify to that (too often, I’m afraid). BUT what I wish sometimes I could do is bring my punk rock home side with me TO WORK…the next time one of those Gen Y’s with their Cobra Starship attitude come up in here and even question my decisions my Ramones side comes out and its time to…
Beat on the Brat
Beat on the Brat
Beat on the Brat with a Baseball Bat
Oh yeah! Oh yeah, oh, oh!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=steaming
Interesting blog. I am new to your approach and as an Employee Assistance Program owner, found this article to be especially interesting. You left out one key relation detail…what happens if/when the relationship fails? The remaining after effect divides department/coworkers; results in uncomfortable emotions; and (as you said) commits career suicide. Using “bitch” says more about the speaker then the recipient; 60 hours depicts someone trying to prove something or demonstrates a dysfunctional organization; and using work for personal healing is actually ‘personal avoidance’.
Too deep for me today. Every time I see a reference to not being a ‘rocket scientist,’ it always makes me smile because I remember this know-it-all co worker who always used to say that she was “no rocketship” whenever something escaped her.
@HRU Fuck. Yeah. You. Are.
@Geekette Word. Love is overstated (& overrated).
@Karen You are a brave, brave woman.
@Chris Hahahahahhahahahaha, awesome.
@TheHRD Very helpful.
@George Welcome to the blog!
@GL Honestly, I hate the rocket scientist phrase. I’m surprised I wrote that. Sometimes my brain is broken and I rely upon old linguistic crutches in my writing.
Seriously?!? Really, does everyone believe everything that they read on the internet?
Laurie – Since you are an advice roll…I am wondering what is the best way for someone to dislodge their head from their azz. Any ideas? Really, just want to know so I can pass it along to people who don’t understand how to find the best resource for their questions.
@HighPriest I’d be out of a job if I gave you that answer.
EVERY co-worker relationship/marriage at my company since I’ve worked here has resulted in disaster and high drama. Still, I’d never advocate an anti-dating policy because I aint yo’ mama. The less I know about what people are doing off the clock, the better. (Though, there have a been a few who did inappropriate things late in the evening in the office.)
I’m the least HR-y HR person I know, so I never wear the HR hat home. In fact, sometimes I don’t even wear it at the office, but I consider that an asset.
Volunteering, going to a dog park with your dog, taking up a hobby and joining a group, taking a class…those things just seem so much easier. Hey, I hear a lot of HR chicks are cute, maybe I should try and connect with some online…
…or not. I’m volunteering. Martin Luther King did it. I wrote an email and will start training this week online, and hopefully will be ready to go next week to do free tax preparation. But I’m doing it because I did it before and I want to do it again. I also made a promise to the powers that be if I got the job I pined for I’d volunteer for this. (I got the job.) Meeting a smart woman with a heart of gold in the process, I think, is much more likely in that situation than in many other environments.
Sorry if someone else had these thoughts. I just skimmed over them cuz I was way busy today.
I have been known to be too stringent on the HR rules and suck the life out of my business as a result. I didn’t bring it home at the time, I didn’t have anyone at home to bring it to except my dogs who didn’t get enough discipline and continue to be unrully. I should save that for another blog.
Anyway, I decided to leave business ownership and join the corporate world and work on my personal life. I am now married with 3 step kids and my 2 dogs. I am very happy and hopefully learned my lesson! I don’t know if I’ll join management again but if I do, I will not suck the life out of my employees again! I promise!
At my first job out of college at a major hotel, the Sales director and House were hot and heavy into a relationship. I wasn’t in HR at the time, but part of me sensed that if things between the two of them went awry then the whole hotel would be upside down. Everyone, employees and managers alike (including HR), seemed to be in their business and advocate their relationship. The employees that they oversaw in each of their departments took sides. It was really an unhealthy alliance. I am not sure what happened to them (they were engaged by the time I left), but that set the stage for me when it came to working relationships. It can be done, and it is done everyday, but there has to be a balance.