A question from N about her job search.
Should you always accept ‘no’ in your job search? I’m a laid-off job-seeker at the senior/VP level and was turned down for a position a month ago that I really wanted — and was completely qualified for. This wasn’t the first time; being pretty well-connected and with a great CV, I’ve had lots of interviews but unfortunately not been hired for several jobs for various understandable reasons (either extreme competition or no longer hiring for the position).
However, this particular job hasn’t been filled, and I feel it’s the perfect fit. After two interviews with two HR reps, I was told that while they were impressed and that I presented myself extremely well, the hiring manager wanted someone with the one piece of very specific experience that I lacked.
So the question is…since I do know who the hiring manager is (via a friend), is it worth bypassing the HR person and sending the boss an email stating my case, citing some solutions for problems the company is facing related to this position, and asking for a second consideration? The job is still posted. It just seems like the HR people don’t really know the ins and outs of what it takes to succeed in that role — and while it’s their job to weed out inappropriate candidates, I feel like I was eliminated prematurely. In other words, the boss would likely see qualities that would overshadow my minor experience deficiencies on paper.
Should I a) do nothing and accept defeat; b) email the boss; or c) email the HR manager and CC the boss (or vice versa)?
Thanks for writing, N. I have to give you some tough news: you probably won’t get this job. For whatever reason, HR was empowered to make the call and they didn’t pick you. It sucks. It hurts. It feels wrong. I wouldn’t assume HR missed the boat, though. Maybe HR is stupid, but there might be internal politics or other issues that are causing them to bypass your candidacy.
Pushing your case can go badly if done improperly. You might seem needy, and needy people don’t get hired.
I’m not advising you to accept no, but I am asking you to think about this situation differently.
- I would suggest that you ask your friend (who knows the hiring manager) to hand-deliver your CV to the hiring manager.
- Include a very specific cover letter that includes a simple and concise case for hiring you. The cover letter shouldn’t be more than one page.
- Once you’ve written the cover letter and sent your CV to your friend, be done with it.
I am a big believer in putting my time and energy into worthwhile causes. Control the things you can control in life and walk away from situations that leave you in a position of weakness. Look forwards, not backwards. I know firsthand that it’s not easy to walk away from this company without fighting for this role; however, what does it say that the company didn’t recognize your brilliance in the first place? Will you have to fight for everything you do? Will you have to navigate inter-departmental politics and bullshit?
Accept the company’s decision without labeling it as defeat. It’s not defeat. It is a job offer that didn’t materialize — not a statement of your worth as a human being.
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well said! well said! well said!
Dude, you are so right when you say “Accept the company’s decision without labeling it as defeat. It’s not defeat.”
To N I would advise that no means no. As a Sr./VP level individual, I urge you to remember the Golden Rule. If you will allow your subordinates to second guess your decisions and do an end around on you, then by all means, do that now yourself and go directly to the hiring manager. However, if you feel that behavior would be disruptive, rude, or out of line in the workplace, then don’t do an end around.
Well, it can’t hurt to contact the hiring manager as Laurie outlines.
However…I’m curious as to why you say that the HR people eliminated you from consideration prematurely. It sounds like the *hiring manager* eliminated you prematurely, because you said that there was one piece of very specific experience that you lacked. How is that HR’s fault?
I’ve had lots and lots of people think I’m the one who knocked them out of the running, but I’ve never had a candidate I didn’t present to the hiring manager. Never. Even the ones who hung up on me, swore at me, used racial slurs in the phone interview…every single one of them went to the hiring manager for his/her decision on whether they wanted to interview them.
People always want to blame the HR person because that’s who they talked to, but in my experience the hiring manager is the one who says, “No, I don’t want that one.”
Good advice, Laurie. I can’t tell you how many times a candidate has circumvented me to speak to a hiring manager only to find themselves no better off than before. I’ll also say this much, I don’t know anything about “N”, but something about that e-mail has me thinking there must be something more to the story. I have had a number of former VP’s come across my path in recent months and almost universally this is the feedback I have gotten from hiring managers.
* Came in the door redesigning the department w/o even knowing our culture.
* Arrogant, pushy, and self absorbed.
I don’t know if any of that applies to N, but sometimes “you don’t have a specific skill” is code for we might be able to teach you, but frankly you are too much of a “handful” for us to want to go there.
I would advise anyone who is reentering the job hunt after an extended period of time to not only brush up on your resume skills, but your interview skills as well. Honestly it doesn’t matter how much you know, if you can’t communicate it w/o annoying the interviewer; you have 0 chance of getting the job.
Hi N,
I think your mentality is flawed. You are getting interviews so you must have an amazing CV but you aren’t getting the job(s) which leads me to believe something is going wrong during the interview(s).
By the sounds of it, you are pushing why you fit the job, what’s good about you, how much experience you have, etc. Instead of boasting about you, you need to boast about what you can do for their company. Don’t think about what they can do for you, focus on what you can do for them. They read your resume and know what you have done, what they are really interested is how you plan on using your skills and experience to benefit them!
Hope this helps!
Not being HR folks ourselves, we do wonder if persistence pays… Showing you want it more than anyone else counts for something, no?
I agree with Lori. Part of this puzzle isn’t fitting. Are you coming across as a know-it-all or are you listening in the interviews and responding thoughtfully and appropriately? I don’t have enough info here to figure out where your hurdle is.
Have you asked the HR folks what piece it is that you’re missing? Have they given you specifics? Did you take those to heart or write them off? It seems presumptive of you to state that the HR staff doesn’t know the ins and outs of the job. If they’ve given you concrete feedback, that means the experience you’re lacking is really what the company needs. Sorry to say, but this is a buyers market. Employers get to be very, very, very picky about who they hire.
Also, since you say you are well-connected, are you sure that those connections are speaking well of you?
When it comes to hiring for senior management positions, the hiring managers always know what’s up. I would not assume that HR is the gatekeeper and that the boss doesn’t know you exist. I certainly would NOT email the HR Manager and cc his/her boss. Then you come off as playing petty high school games, as though you’re trying to get the HR Manager busted for not forwarding a fabulous candidate. Trust me, any good HR person ALWAYS forwards the best candidates because recruiting is a TON of work, and we want to find the best talent there is. Every company is different, of course, but the reason I screen candidates is because senior managers know that I understand the business and have a better knack for identifying the issues that they don’t see since they’re focused on technical skill/experience. If I were you, I would go into an interview assuming this, unless you find that the HR people interviewing you are dumb as rocks.
And if HR really is stupid, you don’t want to work for that company anyway. A bad HR group often makes for a bad work environment.
@RevCareers, persistence definitely pays off. But just be sure to listen to the feedback you receive. (Or post it here if you need a translation!
But I appreciate candidates who check in with me once a week (preferably by email).
Hi N!
This may be small comfort, but look at it as company’s loss for not hiring you.
Alluding to Kerry’s point: It’s likely that it was the hiring manager who eliminated you, but left it to HR do the dirty work and deliver the bad news. That’s happened to me on more than one occasion, although it was after I talked or met with the hiring manager. I think that hurts a bit more.
Still, as Kerry and Laurie suggest, it can hurt to contact the hiring manager.
If the position is still open, why not email the HR rep or recruiter that you interviewed with and let them know that you are still interested and remind the HR person of your qualifications and how you can help the company. You could be eliminated as a candidate (forever), or the HR person might not have the guts to call a rejected candidate back if and when the requirements loosen up a little bit. You will never know if you don’t do something. Just don’t become a stalker.
Kerry, Rick and Laurie said what I was going to say. I influence a lot of hires, but I only render decisions on those within my department. HR is perceived as being this meddlesome collection of workplace trolls who pull the strings that determine who gets in and who’s kept out as well as who’s retained and who’s laid off. In reality, we just get to be the public face of those decisions
H Aria makes the point I want to with respect to your actual question. No. You shouldn’t try to do the end run. I would, however, take careful note of the contact info for every person with whom you intereview. If you are rejected for a job be very humble and acknowledge that you understand the decision to move forward. But ask the person (or persons) to help you. Explain that you view this as a developmental opportunity for yourself and ask them for advice on what you could do to make yourself a more attractive candidate for similar roles in the future (at the rejecting company or elsewhere.) The tricky part is asking the question the right way. You should be prepared for the real chance they won’t answer you. If you’re a tool, they’re probably going to tell you that. If you’re just missing a certification, a degree, or that one very specific piece of experience they were seeking; indicate that you’re willing to go to school to get it or work as an intern/temp/contractor to develop the experience they want. The level of experience that you’re at determines which of those three you’re most likely to convince them that you’re a fit to be. The point being that you’re not looking for commitment from them until you’re a more proven commodity. Right now hiring managers think they can ask for the moon and not pay much to get it. In some industries they’re right. But if the skill set is that narrowly defined, your attitude and follow up might just be the instigator of a follow up call Bonita mentions in her response.
In my community, it was front page news that hundreds of applicants applied for one janitor position at a local school. Ironically, school systems have the best benefit packages these days, so even a janitor position, what many of us would consider to be a very dirty job, is a hot item.
So when hundreds apply for a single janitor position, why do we assume something is wrong with a senior VP level individual who gets turned down for positions? There are fewer jobs than candidates, so even the best get turned down. Yes, I think people should take a long look at themselves and determine if they are inadvertantly doing something to turn folks off, but we don’t have to assume that N. is the problem here, or the hiring manager or HR person for that matter.
If her qualifications are as stellar as claimed, then perhaps it is time for N to become an “accidental entrepreneur”. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/business/smallbusiness/23venture.html?_r=1 Put those skills and abilities towards a purpose that fits you, instead of trying to fit into a very small glove.
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the great feedback! It really helps to have HR’s POV, which is why I wrote in. Think I’ll follow the advice of politely checking in with HR, since it has been a month. My friend doesn’t work there anymore, and doesn’t personally know the hiring manager, so dropping off the CV directly won’t work. Couple of things I’m still curious about, though:
- For this job, I was frankly shocked to get an interview at all, since the description clearly stated one of the requirements was solid experience in “nutrition,” which I lack and did not claim to have in my cover letter. However, all my other experience was perfect and transferrable to this position. So the question is…why would they waste their time having me come in at all, knowing that there are likely scores of candidates who have exactly what they’re looking for?
Because, as H Aria points out, it is a buyer’s market and they can be very picky. Think that in any other market, they might choose a candidate based more on “fit” than 100% specific experience, but certainly not now.
- These particular HR execs were great, and I actually think they genuinely wanted to hire me. But to Kerry’s point, I am sure it was the hiring manager who saw my CV, noticed it didn’t have enough nutrition, and that’s where it ended. I feel lucky to get interviews in general, and any interview is good practice and might lead to something, but in this case (and one other) it seems like I never had a prayer in the first place. And that is frustrating due to all the time spent researching/preparing/crafting fabulous thank-yous, etc. Thoughts?
- I really love the advice on thinking more in terms of company solutions instead of my specific skill set. For each interview I do so much research on company news and issues, and then tie it back to similar situations I’ve encountered in my work experience. But taking it to the next level, and offering specific solutions, is a great idea that I definitely haven’t been doing.
I’m wondering if they brought you in thinking that if they met with you, they could sell you to the hiring manager.
Sometime I have a hiring manager who’s being ridiculously picky, and I KNOW we’re not going to find what she’s looking for, because she’s just being unreasonable. I know that she’ll figure it out sooner or later, but I’d prefer that it not take months and months for her to acquire a clue. So I’ll talk to candidates who I KNOW are great for the job, hoping I can speed up the hiring manager’s clue acquisition journey. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t…but it’s possible that these HR folks were doing something like that.
On the flip side, you said you know someone at this company, so it’s also possible they were giving you a courtesy interview because you were a friend of an employee. I absolutely HATE courtesy interviews (because it’s not at all courteous to waste people’s time). Some recruiters feel that an employee will feel snubbed if they don’t interview the candidate the employee referred. This could be one of those.
Bottom line—it’s probably worth your time to send an email to this hiring manager (it’s a long shot, but it doesn’t cost anything). Once you click “send,” though, put it out of your mind and move on to the next one. Either they’ll call or they won’t, but it’s out of your hands at that point.
Communications/correspondence is an area I specialize in, so I’m really interested in this issue from that perspective.
To N: I think Laurie and many of the other commenters make some really valid points – this may not work, and their minds may already be made up.
However, if you decide to send a direct message to the hiring manager, I’d think long and hard about what message I wanted to communicate to them.
Yes, including ideas about how to solve issues, or how to expand on successes, is a great idea.
But you need to balance that content with statements that show your agility and flexibility, your enthusiasm for collaboration, and your willingness to try new ideas.
It sounds like you know your own worth and know the company’s weaknesses. But your delivery of that knowledge in an interview could have cast you as a know-it-all or a “handful”, and that may have given you a bad rep at the HR/hiring manager’s level.
If you’re able to do so objectively, you should also think long and hard about the interview you had, and your approach. Was it an appropriate approach for this job? Is it possible the message about who you are and what you can offer got lost in your delivery method?
If you send that letter, consider your message carefully. Strike a balance and be clear and concise. Begging for the job won’t work, nor will sounding like you should be running the whole place. Accentuate the positive and hope for the best. Good luck!
As a recruiter I ALWAYS tell my candidates if they lack a particular skillset, especially if it applies to a particular industry– “You’re hitting on all cylinders with most of the requirements, but you’re lack of XYZ experience will more than likely be your fallback. Don’t count on anything– no guarantees.” Conveniently let’s the candidate know that this isn’t a basket to put your eggs in– and let’s them get on with their merry job hunting. All bases covered— I’m not fielding phone calls all day from “I could easily hat
I’ve worked with many HR departments now and in the past– and have experienced great ones, and horrible ones, and there’s no one really to blame here— but I feel that it’s the HR professional’s responsibility to know the absolute minimum requirements and convey that to the candidate in a real world scenario. Sounds to me these particular HR professionals, naively perhaps, and regardless of how nice they were, might have been stringing “N” along inadvertently and unnecessarily.
My take on if you know someone at the company who knows the hiring manager?? Make sure there’s a good repore or you’re screwed anyway— also, damn sure I’d follow-up with a hiring manager— but also following up with other positions as well. You sound more like a professional “checking in” versus a desperate “can I have a job, puh-lease????”.
You might want to view this one as having dodged a bullet.
If the company doesn’t think you’re the right fit–for whatever reason–chances are they’re right. They’re the ones inside this situation. They know this position. Why do feel you know better than they when you’re looking at this from the outside?
Once, a few years ago, I ran across a job for which I thought I’d be perfect. I sent my resume, I traveled across the country twice for interviews, jumped through hoops and over hurdles. When she called to let me know they’d gone with someone else, the woman who would be my boss told me flat out that she went with the other finalist because I was overqualified and would end up bored and extremely frustrated dealing with their safe, slow-moving owner, who made all the final marketing decisions.
Six months later, I learned the position was open again and made a call. I was hired. It was one of the worst jobs I’ve ever held. I was never so bored in my life, and I almost lost my mind trying to light a fire under the company’s safe, slow-moving, and unbearably wishy-washy owner/CEO.
Helloooo?!?
@Charlene Thanks!
@HRPuf “No means no.” Always a good rule. Especially when I turn down a second helping of my Gramma’s meatloaf. “No, Gramma, really, I can’t. I’m stuffed.” Ugh.
@Lori Oh man, I hate those candidates who know everything and can’t wait to mix shit up. You want to change the world? Go work for Oxfam. Otherwise calm down and build relationships before you blow up bridges.
@Tanya Thanks for that advice. Gap analysis. Honestly look at your deficiencies. So good. So smart!
@RevCareers Persistence pays until it doesn’t.
@HAria Good point on the gatekeeper. It usually isn’t HR unless you have a totally empowered Human Resources department — and that rarely exists.
@Rick Small comforts are important.
@Bonita Good advice re: stalker. It’s such a fine line, though.
@Scott Whoa, awesome advice. Thanks!
@BZTat Your book should focus on being an accidental entrepreneur. You could write it — and make it a trilogy.
@N Glad you liked the responses!!
@Kerry Such a smart response. You’re right about courtesy interviews. Ugh. Not worth anyone’s time.
@Patrick You could go into business writing cover letters, prepping candidates for interviews, or being a life coach. Why didn’t I suggest this sooner???
@MattyMat Seirously, you meet all qualifications as a commenter on my blog but you lack expertise in [insert here].
@Elise OMG, seriously, your story is not all that uncommon. We get what we want — and it turns out to suck. Go figure. Ugh.
[horseshoe throwing] [basketball twirling] [babysitting] [farting] [racketeering] What???…. I can learn it in a week!!!!