In my last post, I suggested that it’s easier to look for a job when you are employed versus unemployed. I advised that you should look for a job from the comfort of your cubicle.
Corey has a different take.
Agreed except for the part of doing it from your cubicle/office over company internet. While you have those things sure, but not on or with company property. Never know who in IT or otherwise is watching.
I disagree with Corey — and I wonder what you think. Have you ever fired someone for using the internet?
- I
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I think it all boils down to the ‘as long as your doing your job and getting things don then it’s ok’ mentaility in this area.
I agree for the individual they should probably do it, because they have to do what’s best for them. But at the same time, if I’m managing a team, and I se that as I’m walking by, I wouldn’t be happy about it.
If things are good and they’re searching for a job, what can you do to make it better? If things are bad then you know why they’re looking for a job…either way, what they do whether it’s during work hours or not, can potentially be out of the control of the manager.
I subscribe to the “never stop looking for your next job” philosophy. That is to say, this is an uncertain world, and I think it’s good to have a general idea of what might be available in your field, especially if you happen to have your eye on a particular employer/organization.
I am NOT looking for a new job, but I do hit the local University’s employment page about weekly. And yes, I do it from my cube.
IMHO excessive internet use at work signals a disconnect
Ahem…
I was saying…
IMHO excessive internet use at work signals a disconnect between the employee and supervisor. When do I surf the ‘net at work? When I don’t have anything else to do, or when the only projects I have are dead end, non-funded, go nowhere projects.
Internet use isn’t a problem in itself, it’s a symptom of poor management. Give ‘em organizationally meaningful goals, set deadlines, and hold ‘em accountable. They’ll either perform or they won’t.
Internet use isn’t the issue.
We have let someone go for using company e-mail to notify his former colleagues that he was looking for a new position and X person from Y company would be calling them for a reference. That wasn’t really the entire reason, it was sort of a catalyst to them not having been doing their job properly for some time.
@laurie
I have fired someone for duplicating studio movies on company viseo equipment and selling the bootleg copies to employees. (VHS and DVD were available)
I have fired someone for running a check pool poker gane that resulted in a $30,000 payout. (I didn’t win the pool)
I have fired someone for beating the living shit out of a co-worker.
I have fired someone for tesing positive for cocaine on a random test after placing them on a last chance agreement for testing positive for Marijuana. (I knew it was a gateway drug)
I have never fired anyone for using the internet, althougbnI have counseled sevral people for checking out porn. (male and female. porn doesn’t discriminate)
Michael
I’ve never fired someone for using the Internet at work, but have seen and given people warnings for it. It has only ever come up when they were doing something inappropriate (porn, offensive material), out in the open where the GM saw them doing it, or they really weren’t doing their job because they were online so much. I don’t think that using the internet at work, even looking for another job at work, is a big deal as long as you are performing. I’m on the internet while at work but I get my stuff done.
You need to be aware of what your company
So just by responding to you, I am on company time (however reading your blog is considered value add in my book, and I am in charge so I get a pass on this). Anyway, my take is before and after hours and lunch is your time to surf. Remainder of time is the company’s…And if the company can email and call you after hours (“Is’nt it OUR TIME MR. Hand – Jeff Spicolli in Fast time’s at Ridgemont High) then you can surf on company time as long as your getting your work done and not creating an issue by being OVERT!!!
- My $2 cents
As long as an employee is getting their job done, and isn’t using the internet for some kind of illegal activity, I don’t care what they do. Micromanaging that kind of stuff drives me nuts.
“I believe in turnover because I think it keeps an organization healthy.”
I love that thought, Laurie.
But using downtime at work for anything other than helping the organization become more valuable is irresponsible. In fact, I believe it’s everyone’s obligation to make it so there is no downtime (not just management’s). If we all gave ourselves more to our work, focusing on our contribution, we’d have less of the economic challenges we’re all facing right now.
What we do tells people who we are.
If we hire people who search for a job while they’re being paid by someone else to do their job, we can pretty confident they’ll eventually do the same when they come to work with us.
We need more truth.
As long as people are getting their jobs done, I really don’t care if they look for jobs on “company time.” I also don’t feel all that possessive toward “my people,” because that’s just not how grown-ups do business.
If I am confident that I am treating my employees well, it doesn’t worry me to know they are shopping around for another gig. The job I’m offering either compares favorably with what else is out there, or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, I want you to leave. Good luck, and stay in touch, alrighty?
The relationship between a worker and an employer is a lot like dating, IMO. You only want the person there if they actually want to be there.
@mary ellen the dating is an interesting analogy. Would you be tempted to end a relationship with someone you were dating that you caught on match.com
I think a lot of HR Pro’s wouldn’t want to terminate for job hunting at work and I am sure there are plenty of operational managers that feel the same way.
Let me ask you this. A senior executive comes to you and says I saw Johnny Smith on Monster (assuming they are not in a job where that would be appropriate i.e. recruiter) and I want them gone by the end of the day. Is that a battle you are willing to fight.
Considering the US’s current economic woes, how about this. Time for layoffs Person A and B have about the same tenure and performance measures. Person A is known to sneak a peak at monster at lunch, who are you going to keep?
When you job hunt on the company dime you are taking a risk
I don’t give two craps what you are doing on the company internets as long as it isn’t illegal or effs with your coworkers. Just get your work done and stay out of my office. IT can suck my big toe, especially the prima donna help desk a-holes that have no sense of customer service and think it’s “their” network. Pshaw. Shove off, yo.
I’m not sure I would carry the dating analogy that far. I just don’t think that the way to hold onto people is by insisting that they stay in the dark about what else is out there. I want a great, educated person who freely chooses to work for me, not someone who just feels stuck there out of ignorance. If they aren’t getting their job done, I don’t care if it’s Monster they are surfing four hours a day or the New York Times. THEN we have a problem.
That someone looked at Monster on their lunch break would have no bearing on my decision in the layoff. None. How much we need their skill sets and their relative performance is all that matters.
I don’t understand this need to instantly end a good (working) relationship because someone is *looking* at job ads at work, assuming they are performing well. Sacking someone for looking just turns your medium-term problem into an instant one. If the surfer is someone really valuable to my team, I would take them out for coffee to see what’s going on and what needs to happen to for them to stay. If it’s not something I can control (they need way more money, better hours, a new career entirely, etc), I am very likely to actively help them with their search.
P.S. I look at job ads pretty much daily now — a habit I’ve had for a decade — and I love, love, love my job. I just like to know what else is out there. These days, it just reinforces the choice I made. I pass along intriguing ads to other people. And yeah, this often happens on “company time,” but you know what? I am also often responding to urgent e-mails from my boss during “playing at the park with my daughter time.” Blurring the lines of when you’re on and off duty goes both ways.
P.P.S. For the record, I did not find my current job while surfing on company time. It was a referral from a friend. I did exchange e-mails with the hiring manager while I was at work (on my personal e-mail) and held a phone interview while at work (via my personal cell phone). Should I have been sacked on the spot?
It is not a matter of whether or not you should be sacked on the spot, it is the fact that you can be. To assume that your employer will not care if they catch you job searching at work is dangerous. There are battles I am willing to fight, a manager comes to me and says they want to term employee X for job hunting at work, that is not one of them. My personal preference would not be to term, but I certainly wouldn’t fight it. And if I am doing layoffs and I know someone is looking, well it wouldn’t be points in there favor.
Chances are you are an employee at will and chances are your organization has some sort of policy restricting internet for personal use. I have not only been in a situation where I have had to term for it, we won the unemployment hearing as well.
Corey, I totes love that we agree to disagree. This was a good (& fun) controversy because opinions fall over a wide spectrum.
Laurie, I couldn’t agree more and I am actually glad to see that so many people would not term for it.
Have you considered if this person has a non-compete clause or if you give one person the resources to find a job then you should give everybody those same resources. I’m not sure where you would draw the line on this? Can they use company phones, office supplies, etc. There is also the fact that some companies still pay for bandwidth. How about if they are inadvertently leaking information to a competitor by applying for a job?
Rules, Rules, so many effing HR rules!!!
Corey is right, it is a little like dating, but more like the book “He’s just not that into you.”
If they’re looking for a new job it’s because he/she is just not that into you.
Now, you can either choose to do something positive about it (throw on some lipstick and do a little dance) or you can let them surf and hope they don’t find another employer (who already wears lipstick and does a little dance) or slap them on the wrist for looking (in which case they’ll go underground looking for another employer who wears lipstick and does a little dance.
If it’s top talent you don’t want to lose then take positive steps to solve his/her discontent. If it’s a donkey say good riddance and give his/her name to your least favorite recruiter.
It’s almost 2009, y’all! Stop locking teh Internetz down like Alcatraz and start twittering about it!
Glad I stuck with this thread to the bottom, because I think Breanne nails it perfectly.
And Corey, I *would* fight that battle with the senior exec., for all the reasons Breanne lists so concisely. It looks to me like an ideal learning moment to update and upgrade Jefe’s approach to talent management, with positive ripple effects all around.
@kentropic- “I think Breanne nails it perfectly.” *giggles*
Er, so to speak. Nice catch! Accidental humor mashups-R-us, sometimes.
I’m curious – what if it is the senior exec hunting? And more than looking, they are discussing salary with recruiters and going on interviews for the same type position with competitor companies?
(recent hire – 2 years w/ company, paid to relocate in, etc)