My latest post at Lemondrop is up — and it’s controversial. Check it out.
The One Sure Way to Stop Sexual Harassment
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Punk Rock HR and Team Building is for Suckers by L.Ruettimann is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
Based on a work at punkrockhr.com.
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Great post Laurie! I totally agree with you on this issue. The perpetrators of sexual harassment, like those who physically abuse their spouse or partner, never deserve a second chance; and though it frustrates me to acknowledge it, often the best way to ensure it never happens again is for the victim to walk away
Laurie,
A friend of mine just sent me the link to your site. Fantastic! Apparently, I’ve been a punk rock HR professional for quite some time and didn’t realize it!
I left the corporate space and started my own consulting biz because I discovered that I had a vision of how to practice HR that didn’t involve most of the BS that I was experiencing. I’ve discovered that having issues with authority and no tolerance for stupidity is actually a good thing from this side of the fence!
You’re totally right about harassment. Any company that isn’t aware of that kind of behavior in the first place, and isn’t doing anything about it until someone complains, deserves to lose its employees.
The whole issue really goes back to #1 on your employee handbook list: don’t be an asshole.
That was controversial, and yet very true. Unless someone admits to their behavior or someone witnesses it, it is very hard to prove. I agree, why would you still want to work there?
Excellent advice, all around. I’ve seen this issue twice in my career as the manager of the offender, and both times was told I had to offer a second chance when I wanted to fire the perpetrator.
Well, actually, what I wanted to do involved a dull spork and the testicles of the offender, but I like not having a criminal record.
Nice. I think that was the longest piece I’ve read of yours..
I really like this posting.
Honest question, though – what do you do when you’re interviewing for your next job and they ask you why you left your previous employer? If you’re honest, do you run the risk of the interviewer seeing you as less desirable than someone who’s never been any trouble for an employer? (and I recognize, of course, that in this case the employer deserved whatever trouble they got, but like you said in your posting, HR is not your pal) And if you’re vague, I don’t imagine that leaves a good impression either. What do you do?
@Ken It’s a tough message re: employers because many of us were taught to trust the process. The process is broken if a company is hiring a crappy employee in the first place.
@Compass Awesome response and thanks for reading my blog! Welcome!
@HR Minion I hate how the burden of proof is always on the victim. These investigations always go bad.
@SM You had me at spork.
@Amanda Hooray!
@Ian You tell them what you tell everyone — you’re looking at opportunities, you are focused on contributing to a new organization while growing and improving your skills, and you’re entertaining job opportunities that sync with your values.
This goes for any internal investigation. The company isn’t going to tell an employee that might be uneducated about the issue that the employee is right. They’re certainly not going to put it in writing.
@Rachel Exactly. Sheesh.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I thought it was odd that you said that not reporting the harassment feels ‘anti-feminist’. Being harassed or reporting harassment has nothing to do with feminism. I was aggressively and quite intentionally sexually harassed, along with almost every one of my male coworkers, by a militant misandric feminist while working on a NASA contract for a full year before I left. Whenever anyone said a word about the harassment or complained about the woman, we were shown a policy written by a feminist attorney in New York City that said ‘men cannot be sexually harassed. Only women can be harassed due to the dynamic of male power … blah blah.’ They said this was why our harassment experiences didn’t count and complaints would not be accepted. The woman harassing all of us hung a framed copy of this policy on the outside of her cube and a poster of fully naked men on the inside, just opposite the harassment policy. I’m sure their policy might have had some difficulty holding up in court, but nevertheless, the only thing feminism had to do with her harassment of us was that it motivated her to do it out of her personal hatred of men. And it enabled her to get away with it. Sexual harassment is not an issue owned by feminist political groups, regardless of their interest in it. It is an issue that affects all workers, male or female, feminist or egalitarian alike. The information in the article was very helpful. I don’t mean to imply that it wasn’t. But when you threw in the term ‘anti-feminist’ it implied that the article only applies to women who are feminists, and no one else. I don’t know much about the Lemondrop website, but I didn’t see anything on it that indicated it was only for feminists.
Incidentally, the company with this policy was New Technologies Inc in Huntsville, Alabama. As far as I am aware, they still maintain this highly sexist and misandric policy to this day. Not being able to get anything done about being molested at my desk on a daily basis didn’t feel anti-feminist to me. It felt exactly the opposite.
@Steve ‘Not reporting the harassment feels anti-feminist
There are multiple versions of feminism and only the egalitarian branch advocates equality “for men and women”. You may be an egalitarian, but many who identify as feminists, especially in government and academia, are the exact opposite. The woman preying on her male coworkers was no egalitarian, but if you tried to tell her that she wasn’t a feminist she would have assaulted you. She was a feminist, a very militant feminist, but not an egalitarian feminist.
My mother is a feminist and has been all my life. I grew up in a city dominated by non-egalitarian feminism. I know what feminism is. I wasn’t given any choice in whether I would stuy it or not. I also know where this confusion about what feminism is or isn’t comes from. I know why so many women say that if they were in charge of ‘the womens movement’ then it would be different. But nevertheless, both sects of feminism exist. The battle between the narcissistic feminists and the egalitarian feminists goes all the way back to Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony. The narcissistic feminists, the female supremacists, have always tended to have more wealth and more political influence, which is why so many ordinary women are left complaining that they don’t know why so much of feminism seems to involve hating and hurting men and boys. A rich and powerful few, advocating their version of feminism, have always dominated the women’s movement over a middle and lower class many, who tend to indicate a desire only for a movement about equal treatment.
The National Organization for Women openly states its goal of “equal rights FOR WOMEN”, but not for men. So does the Feminist Majority. So does Catherine MacKinnon, author of the original Violence Against Women Act and very revealing “Feminist Theory of The State”. Equality only between females, but not for males.
I’m not trying to come here and very rudely crap on your beliefs or your blog. I’m not trying to be rude to you in any way. But the implications of the word ‘feminist’ has been a divisive issue from the very beginning for legitimate reasons and it will continue to be so, in all likelihood, long after we are both dead and gone. All I am saying is that for many who read your article, the term ‘anti-feminist’ does not mean what it means to you. For me, and from my own experiences in the workplace, it has quite often meant the exact opposite, as NTI’s sexual harassment policy very clearly and plainly spelled out.
Hey Steve, there are many shades of blue but there is one absolute blue. It doesn’t matter what your mother thinks of feminism or how your former co-worker treated you. In fact, those actions are just ancilary observations and do not represent an objective or honest definition of feminism or femininity. Thanks for your observations, but they are not correct in my opinion.
My opinion matters, btw, because this is my blog.
You don’t want to argue the definition of feminism with me, here, on my blog — especially because you’re wrong. You are wrong on the facts, no matter how much you trot out random quotes from NOW and other websites.
Since I pay for the bandwidth on my blog — and my time bills out at $200/hr when I consult on HR issues — I am going to wrap this up. I’m sorry you were sexually harassed or whatnot, but that has nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with one stupid person who made a bad decision. I’m not going to concede on the semantics of feminism and I don’t really welcome the debate because GRRRRR I’M AN ANGRY FEMINIST.
Feel free to book an appointment and write me a check. We can talk about this further.
OOOGAH BOOOGAH THE FEMINISTS ARE COMING FOR YOUR CHILDREN!!!!!!
WE ARE ALSO GOING TO HATE MEN AND HAVE LOTS OF CATS! OOOGAH BOOOGAH!
I read your article on sexual harassment. Unfortunately you are right about the HR department being primarily there to focus on the company’s image and protection. I was a victim of harassment and work sabatoge for 6 straight months. At my breaking point I sought help from an Assistant Mgr. that seemed to understand what I was going through, remarked it had happened before, and he would intervene. That never happened, and when I asserted I would go over his head to get resolution, he laughed and said, “you might as well quit because they love this guy he generates alot of money for the company and you are just a rookie.” I documentated my incidents, kept incriminating emails, and had witnesses that I thought for sure I could call on if I had to. I was wrong. I quit, and filed for unemployment, reason hostile work enviroment and sexual harassment. What you are not informed of when you start this action is that it is very hard to prove even with proof. I had to hire a lawyer, they would not let me call on other witnesses, and the manager that was assused never showed up rather the Assistant Mgr. I went to came to represent the company and basically said I was lying. They would not my lawyer submit the emails and I never got to face my abuser. I tried to file with the EEOC, but they dropped the case on lack of evidence on either side. I lost my unemployment benefits and worst of all have to pay the 2 months I received back. I felt victimized all over again. Shortly after, I heard the Mgr. was demoted and sent to another branch, the other girl that was harassed left the comapny, one of my witnessess quit after being threatened by management, and the HR director quit. This has haunted me for 3 years now. It also greatly effected my career. The type of work I do is mostly male, and women trying to get thier career off the ground are put through almost a hazing type ritual to see if they are tough enough I guess..it is stupid and juvenile and most of all destructive and costly. I just want people to know that you don’t have to be abused at work, and yes you probably should quit, but don’t expect unemployment to be on your side, you may be left in the cold twice.
Laurie,
With the utmost respect for you as a professional, I’m afraid that I heartily disagree with you.
Your article suggests that those employees subject to the degradation and humiliation of sexual harassment remain in a hostile work environment out of choice, and, if I’m reading your column correctly – your recommendation is that they just quit and go on to happier and greener pastures, like they are held there only out of choice, as simple as deciding which soup to have for lunch. “I’ll take the job without the groping boss, please.”
I believe that the reason most people stay in any type of dysfunctional environment is out of fear – not choice. In fact, it is often that lack of choice that keeps a person imprisoned in their situation. You make it sound so easy, like, all one really has to worry about is the size of the box they should bring along to work to pack up their belongings – but it’s been my experience that there are so many other things involved in making that type of decision. And, in this economy, the decision to leave an organization could take FAR longer than you make it out here.
There just aren’t the jobs available anymore to be able to make that kind of move quickly, and what’s more, there’s also that fear of how your current employer might speak about you to your new employer. What if the person harassing you is the ONE person you really need a good recommendation from? What if you’ve been at your current location less than a year? We all know how it looks on a resume to have less than 12 months at a job. Then of course, there is the fear that your new employer could be even worse than the old? I mean, what if you’re advice reaches someone new to the work world – as I’m quite sure that these predators are looking for the young naive victim over the older more experienced one, no? They won’t have the experience to understand that not all work environments are like this – and they may be living in fear that the next job could be worse.
I don’t believe that when a person reaches out to HR to complain about a dysfunctional situation – be it sexually oriented or otherwise – it is to have them fix it with their magic pixie dust so that everyone can go back to the campfire and sing kum bi ya…No, I believe that when employees reach out to HR it is to buy time. And by that I mean, no one really WANTS to remain in that kind of a situation, but extracting yourself from that environment may take many weeks or months, or even years. And what if you’ve been with the company for many years? What if you’re being paid at a wage that you can’t easily find for a similar position? Should these victims be forced to take a pay cut just to get out of there? How can you conscientiously advise them to do that?
Furthermore, you suggest that these employees NOT complain to HR about the behavior they’re experiencing, that they just up and quit. How is HR or the company ever supposed to realize WHY that employee left? By suggesting that course of action, aren’t you setting the company up for even greater liability? What if a person who has essentially gotten away with the behavior begins to escalate, and the behavior turns violent?
What you’re telling people as an HR representative is essentially, “We’d rather not know. So don’t tell us. Just leave.” And I personally think that is incredibly irresponsible, both to the victims of this behavior, and to your company.
I vote for documenting the offending behavior in a journal or calendar, uses specifics, gather the evidence, report it to HR, and then work on an exit strategy.
I am 54 years old and have been taking this approach my entire life and as of yet been able to find that company that supports women in my profession – SO NOW I FIGHT and I WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT AND DEMAND THAT MEN AND THE POWER STRUCTURE CHANGE AND THAT INCLUDES HR WHICH IS USUALLY WOMEN !!!!
@PJ I’m so sorry to read about your experience.
@VR Thank you. It’s tough for an article to be nuanced and ‘technical’ (from an HR perspective) in so few words, so I appreciate your comments. I agree that the economy sucks, but I’m not suggesting that women should avoid telling HR what happened. I’m saying that women (or men) should own their careers and leave an unbelievably stupid company that would employ a man (or a woman) who would put the company’s brand and reputation at risk. When you leave, you should absolutely tell HR. Tell the world. Tell the market. Then focus on living the being life possible by moving forward.
@Shannon Do you have a blog? The revolution will be blogged, yo.
I too left a hostile work environment, I received harrassment of many types that were ignored by the management and specifically by my supervisor. We were in a meeting with all the managers and one manager made a “Something about Mary” reference to the way I did my hair that day. I ignored the guy and he continued, after the third comment in which he tried to pursue (as if I didn’t know what he meant) the issue, I went off on him, my supervisor, who was one of the managers in this meeting told me to calm down and drop it, But what else can you expect from someone who would be running around f this f that and sexual commentary and threats. The owners office was nearby, for her to plead ignorance on any level is suspect.
HR is indeed formed for the protection of the company, I wish they had a whistleblowers law for true sexual harrasment and harrasment of any kind
Great article, Laurie. I’m torn about your advice, particularly given the economy. And having never been a woman, not sure I feel qualified to agree or disagree. I have a stronger pull toward your pragmatic approach, particularly given the it-shouldn’t-be-this-way-in-2009-but-it-is reality of the world, and the fact that it is hardly surprising that companies’ first, second, and third prerogative is protecting its image and itself from blame and fault.
From what I’ve heard, workplaces that I left have, in fact, addressed things I brought up in exit interviews, and in one case, seemed to improve a situation for my successor. These were issues I had brought up while working there, but they only seemed to take them seriously when I quit and discussed them in an exit interview, either with my soon-to-be former boss or an HR person. However, all of these items fell into the work processes/job satisfaction category, and none of them even came close to falling into the harassment category.
@Emcee I agree, I wish there was some kind of agency that existed for employees. It’s not HR or unions.
@Icepick I’m sure people would love to hear that HR is there for them, charges will be taken seriously, and changes will be made. It’s sad, but the best thing you can do is live your life well. This is why I advise people to find a new job, resign, and THEN out the perp. I wrote as much on the AOL site, but I think it was missed. People are are reactionary, yo.
An interesting post that shows a rather blinked view of the vexed issue of “harassment”.
“Don’t like getting groped in the workplace? Then just leave. And don’t tell HR because we’d rather not know.” That’s just wrong and you know it. HR folk just LOVE grievance cases, don’t they? It’s their chance to play judge and jury with real people – it’s what they live for.
Sure, there are a lot of a-holes in the workplace, but I just wonder how many “harassment” cases these days could be resolved by grown-ups just talking to each other? I’ve often found that many obnoxious people just don’t know they are being obnoxious.
For example, and in the one instance where I worked with a guy who just couldn’t keep his hands off the ladies, I am ashamed to say that it was “us males” who administered an appropriate and humiliating punishment on the aforementioned creep, after several (loud) complaints from our female co-workers. He laughed off informal approaches so as a group we decided to take more direct action. In the end, we had a day where we all wore huge rubber hands into work and kept singing “You need hands…” every time the guy spoke. Childish but hugely effective. The creep ceased groping and left soon after. Needless to say, HR’s sole contribution to the affair was to aggressively cross-examine each and every one of my team after the guy complained about our “harassment” at his exit interview!
In most companies I have worked for (with one exception, where the management/HR culture was as insidious as it was poisonous), personality differences got ironed out because the folk I worked with looked out for each other. Maybe I’ve been lucky.
So I could never regard a situation as genuine where a complainant has never actually told an individual that they find their behaviour upsetting, especially in front of witnesses. Without that critical first step, can a harassment case really be upheld?
Sadly from my own observations these days, yes it can. In more recent years I’ve seen several highly competent (if abrasive) individuals bounced off-site under some very contrived circumstances. In one case when I spoke out in one’s guy’s support, I got smeared as well. And that’s because when in downsizing or reorg mode, pinning a harassment case on someone is often just corporate HR’s way of avoiding severance pay-outs.
In today’s highly competitive workplaces, I also suspect that there’s sometimes a hidden agenda in allegations of harassment as well. “I’m an underperformer and I think my boss is on to me? Hey, maybe I’ll just file a grievance before he gets me first. Or maybe I’ll file one against a co-worker to smear his career and improve my own chances. Or maybe I’m an idiot boss and a smarter underling is becoming a threat…”
In a big company, filing that grievance often seems to be a great career move if you’re female/ethnic and mediocre. “Harassment” isn’t always about someone else’s behaviour any more. Tell me it ain’t so.
The concern for me is in asking someone to do something they aren’t empowered to do. If you feel a crime has been committed against you, which is the case if you’ve been victimized, then HR isn’t who you should talk to. The Police are better suited to conduct an investigation on your behalf, and are empowered to produce results that effect behavioral change. And while quitting may serve to hasten your company’s adherence to a “no-tolerance” sexual-harassment policy, a visit from Detectives Sandoval and Griffin during a crucial client meeting will work better. If you would call a cop if it happened to you in the grocery store, then you should call a cop if it happens in your cubicle.
@Jake I agree that sexual aggression is a crime, but what about the more subtle (& more common) issues around gender inequality in the workforce? Sexual harassment is usually more subtle and evil. It’s often less physical and more mental.
@Giles I agree, this topic is bigger than a 500 word post on Lemondrop. Had I written this for a traditional business-savvy audience, I would have explored the nuances of harassment and hostile work environments during tough economic times. Is it harassment when a coworker asks you for a date? Do you bear the responsibility of telling people to SHUT THE EFF UP when they look at your boobs and compliment you on a sweater? Should you punch your boss in the face when he suggests you get adjoining rooms on a business trip? Is it possible to fight against an infrastructure that promotes chummy, flirty relationships and promotes an in-crowd mentality? What do you do with a woman who misconstrues a compliment for harassment? What do you do with a man who misconstrues your kindness for a sexual come-on?
The point of my article was simple: control what you can control, own your own career, and report the incident when you’re in a position of strength — out the door and into a new job — instead of a position of weakness.
Also, my more subtle point: HR is not your friend. There are great HR pros out there who have investigated HR claims and fired perpetrators. That’s great. I’ve done it, too. For every awesome HR professional who exists, there are three chumps out there who THINK they are great HR professionals and assume that they’re operating at a super-high level of competency. They’re not.
Whew, did I just vent?
@Laurie Just reading some of these blogs and I have to say a huge AMEN to the final paragraph – thanks for venting!
I had one HR person in my work-life who was brilliant (sometimes common sense missing leads to…) but he was not competent (and he lost his job as a result of his lack of common sense). I, too, have had to investigate claims and had to make that recommendation to terminate someone’s employment…all I can say is don’t let a momentary lapse of judgement screw up your job/career/life (those of you who might be behaving inappropriately). Those of you affected, try to just tell the person to STOP…you might be surprised to have success. Oh, and DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT because if you are harassed and are constructively discharged, those documentations might come in handy someday.
One last thing about HR professionals (some don’t know this) – if you go to HR and say, “I don’t want to do anything but…” or “I don’t want to get ____ in trouble but…” Be prepared to have the competent HR professional handle the situation.
I’m sorry so many are treated so poorly – YOU DESERVE BETTER and if the company doesn’t agree (i.e. allows this) then leave them (documentation in hand)!
lisalotzer,just wanted to say that in my case (see above) the company I worked for was small and private, the owner and my supervisor are both women, and they have personal agendas that they feel do not warrant looking out for their employees.
Also, I worked in a very large company where we had extensive training in sexual harrassment, and harrassment in general. When there were inappropriate actions, the women usually got moved or laid off and the men were moved via promotions.
I have had a group leader watch while I shoved a guy into his seat because while I was training him on heavy dangerous machinery, he took the opportunity to rub up against my backside. I was the support of my family and I thought I was lucky the group leader didn’t turn me for slamming him, but she also didn’t do anything about the assualt. I needed my job.
Look around the harrassment most times is subtle, consistant and preys upon the most vulnerable. I know
I was a victim of hostile work environment, sexual harassment and assault. My manager initiated a personal friendship and then a sexual relationship with me. I consented to the relationship because I trusted him, cared about, and he was a source of support to me because I am in a troubled marriage. Subordinates and coworkers pried into my personal life, hacked into my emails and publicized information about the relationship as well as speculation about my manager and I. It became well known to an entire unit in a major hospital. My manager did not address any of it and instead, disassociated himself from me because of the public knowledge of the relationship. This caused further insubordination and harassment and sexual assault/harassment by other subordinates and coworkers.
The man who sexually assaulted me was my supervisor, 12 years ago, when was first hired to work in my department. Since 2006, the hospital Administration promoted me to manage the department, this was not accepted by the man who sexually assaulted me. He threatened me , if I complained or rejected his unwanted groping and mouthing, He said that he would ruin me and do what everyone else was doing to me, he told me that he was my only protection because he has worked at the hospital for 30 years and he had allot of influence and friends.
My manager did not address the ridicule,humiliation,and psychological harassment of me by his staff. My manager did not acknowledge or address the sexual assault when I made it known to him. The entire situation continued for almost a year, until I became suicidal. I retained an attorney, filed claims with the EEOC, PHRC. I am still paying for my own medical treatment and now am without income because I am unable to return to the workplace. I suffer from PTSD, anxiety, major depression, nightmares, insomnia, extreme fear and low self esteem. After the Hospital’s investigation, my manager was asked to resign or he would be terminated. The individual that hacked into my emails was terminated. The assaulter was retrained and relocated to another department within the same hospital.
The Hospital expected me to return to work there at the closing of their investigation. I am suffering from Major Depressive Affective Disorder Anxietyand Panic attacks, nightmares, insomnia ect. and now after I rejected the idea, of a settlement for Workman’s Comp and the Sexual Harassment claims, the hospital made me submitt to a psychiatric evaluation by a (litigated) pyshciatrist hired as an expert witness for their defense. This doctor is now requesting all of my records, attempting to explain away the psychological effect the hostile work environment and sexual harassment had on me.
I filed for Workman’s Compensation in November and it still is being fought by my employer. I can’t handle the normal stress of everyday life, my children or my home. I feel overwhelmed by everything and I am now financially paralysed. At this time, I feel I will never be whole or the same again.
My attorney tells me since I had an affair with my manager(which he initiated) that it does not put me in a positive light, and he recommends me settling instead of continuing to fight. I do not know how to do that, nor can I return to work for my employer, my harasser is still within the institution, though my manager and one of the harassers were fired.