Have you watched Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price? As you can tell by the title, the documentary is a scathing indictment of Wal-Mart and its anti-union, anti-woman, anti-minority, anti-environment, and anti-American culture.
I finally watched the movie, this weekend, and it tells the story of associates who can’t afford much, including health insurance, and who rely upon state & federal welfare programs to fill the gap. There are stories of anti-union efforts and violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act. The movie documents the plight of workers in China and Bangladesh who manufacture some of the stuff we buy at Wal-Mart. There’s a correlation made between poor working conditions in Asia and the fact that Wal-Mart imports poisonous and dangerous toys and foods.
I have a love/hate relationship with Wal-Mart. I really hate the way Wal-Mart brands itself as a company with values and yet violates those values as it makes political donations and maneuvers around regulations and restrictions in the free marketplace. I hate how Wal-Mart invokes a folksy American appeal as it buys goods and services from sweatshops in Asia. I hate how Wal-Mart shows little regard for working class issues that impact its associates [such as public health insurance, fair wages, and decent working conditions].
Here’s what I love about Wal-Mart.
- My friends and family who have been hit hard by the recession can afford to provide for their families and pets because Wal-Mart’s prices are so low.
Unfortunately, many people in our society [& in my family] cannot afford to vote with their pocketbook, and they can’t afford to operate in their own best interests. They buy Wal-Mart stuff, propagate the cycle of economic violence against the middle-class, but can’t afford take their business elsewhere. It’s a catch-22. When my family members can purchase cheap food and 40 lbs of kitty litter for $2.99, Wal-Mart becomes relevant in a cynical but important way.
So what do you think about Wal-Mart? Do you have a love/hate relationship with them? Has anyone worked for Wal-Mart? What can you tell me about their anti-union efforts? How are women & minorities treated within the company? Do you shop at Wal-Mart? Do you refuse to shop there? Is there any difference between Wal-Mart and Target?
Now that I’ve seen the movie, I would love to hear from you and get your thoughts.
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I worked for a company that was a Wal-Mart vendor. They were a pain in the neck to work with because their standards were so high. If my former employer had done what Wal-Mart wanted, they would be a much, much better company.
As far as shopping there, it has gone downhill since Sam Walton died. I prefer Target because of the superior merchandising. Also, Target has higher quality products and better prices sometimes on the commodity items.
My husband’s parents are ardent leftist Wal-Mart haters, but will still shop there. (They have many other options.) I guess they don’t believe in living their principles.
I prefer Target over Walmart.
I think the Walmart film you watched was done by Robert Greewald, who is on Twitter and does a bunch of activist stuff. He just did a short for the SEIU on Walmart and Starbucks. He also has done a number of other short youtube “films” on various activist topics including Bank of America and Burger King.
I did a post on this recently. You can see it at:
Negative campaigns: http://humanracehorses.blogspot.com/2009/06/guest-post-social-media-analysis-for.html
If you want to see more of his work, Greenwald has a web site:
http://bravenewfilms.org/
PS – I liked your Burger King video better!
You’re singing my song, Punk Rock Girl. I’ve personally boycotted Wal-Mart for many years because of their treatment of women employees and minority workers, and anti-union stance. But their low prices are a great thing for my family members. My mom takes six (I think) prescription drugs daily, and three or four of them are available for $4.oo on Wal-Mart’s generic list; how can I insist that a widowed old lady on Medicare and Social Security pay full price for prescriptions because of my principles? My sister is in a similar situation – an injury seven years ago left her unable to work, and while her husband works hard to support their family of four (and several pets), Wal-Mart’s low prices sure makes it easier.
I think Walmart has put forth effort backed by dollars toward correcting many of the issues highlighted by the documentary. Walmart is a store that gives the average joe, regardless of where he lives, an opportunity to get what he needs for a good price. Last time I checked, though, like all retailers (like all businesses for that matter), the goal is to make money. Capitalism is a system created by humans and therefore, inherently flawed. Do we like it? Do we not like it? We’d probably love it if we didn’t have it. I feel the same way about Walmart. I don’t really want to shop there, but it would be a pain in the ass if it wasn’t available.
I boycotted Wal-Mart for almost a full year. I broke the boycott when I went camping in Kentucky with one of my girlfriends. Wal-Mart was the only place near the campgrounds where we could pick up supplies. I remember how bizarre it felt to be in a Wal-Mart after a year hiatus. I remember thinking how crazy cheap it is. I rarely go to Wal-Mart these days and feel crazy guilty when I do. The boycott and my subsequent guilt are a direct result of watching the documentary that you referenced. But, I agree with you when it comes to how inexpensive Wal-Mart is. And sometimes, sadly, that makes all the difference.
Due to our remote location my wife and I choose to shop for some items at wal-mart to avoid the 2 hour drive to a neighboring town. I dislike wal-mart for their poor products, poor service and anti small business attitude. As mentioned by class factotum I prefer Target for its cleaner stores and better products. I do not think the US of A wants or can afford every job to carry full benefits and mid level wages.
I hate Walmart with a passion. So when the job for Alice came about, it was the most perfect fit. We’re launching extremely soon. And we’ll make it easy to vote with your pocketbook. You’re right that the low prices just keep everyone in the same vicious cycle. And it’s not just employees and consumers that are hurting. It’s the entire economy and future innovation. I know I sound preachy, but it’s obviously really important to me
Everything’s in one place, prices are low, and they accept any competitor’s coupons…amazing! But like most companies employing so many people from the unskilled labor pool, Wal-Mart has issues. I agree with Laurie’s feelings regarding working class issues, but my argument is that the employees at WMT get exactly what they want(ed). People go to work there is for the health benefits, which are available to both full- and part-time employees. They may later realize that those benefits come with a price (i.e., a small paycheck after the premium is withdrawn from their already small wages), but they get what they initially wanted. And what many don’t know is that WMT contributes a higher premium than most of its competitors and large corporation counterparts b/c WMT employees and their families submit so many claims for pre-existing conditions! But if gov’t officials continue to move for universal coverage, it makes sense (not necessarily ethically but surely economically) for WMT to shift the cost of health insurance to its employees.
Regarding the documentary, what do you expect from interviewing former employees and small, disaffected suppliers? I wish they had interviewed my grandma, a retired WMT employee of 25 years who single-handedly supported her family of three. I wish they had explained how superior WMT’s supply chain is to its competitions’. Cross-docking, instantaneous ad-hoc inventory counts for suppliers, and the shear number of WMT stores…what supplier wouldn’t want their product there? Its low overhead is what made it succeed amid the crowd of 1960’s megagrocers (Target, K-Mart), who can now only hope to survive by occupying a nitch.
Branding campaigns aside, I really think Wal-Mart is more American than you think.
I totally agree that walmart is a good thing for pets (you know this hits near and dear to my heart!). I feed my pups high quality food (Blue buffalo wilderness) and walmart doesnt’ carry it (to be fair, neither does Target- which I also like a lot more!) but I volunteer with 2 animal rescue groups, and medical costs are so high for most of the animals that they take in that they just cannot afford to buy high cost food or else they will have to turn away more animals. I’m so torn. I hate the things that most people hate about walmart.. but at the same time it’s hard for a lot of people in this economy to justify shopping other places (except target, which again- I LOVE!)
I have a hate / hate / triple times hate relationship with Wal-Mart. I wonder if people call me “leftist” because of it. I’m sure they call me “obnoxious.” So I no longer preach about it (for the most part). I spent years ranting and raving and writing papers in grad school about Wal-Mart, but it seemed that when I would present my Wal-Mart shopper buddies with the facts, they would all reply with “I know, I know, But I can’t justify shopping elsewhere because of the low prices.” Really? You can’t justify that? I think that’s a sad commentary on our society. But I digress.
So…to answer your question, I shop at Target. I figure the fact that I do not darken the doors of Wal-Mart says enough. I doubt they miss me, though.
I’ve been boycotting Walmart for about 12 years now. It’s really not hard to save and still avoid shopping at Walmart. All you need is a little patience, some pre-planning and some coupon clipping.
I prefer Target. I spend probably an indecent amount of time at Target. Luckily, Target is closer to my home than Wal-Mart. However, I do frequent Wal-Mart as well. They are cheap, and they are open 24 hours (at least the one by me is).
I watched the documentary with my ex-roommate when we lived together. And yes it was uncomfortable to watch. She was a boycotter, and I used to sneak my bags into the house.
Do I feel somewhat guilty when I shop at Wal-Mart? Yes. But I am also living paycheck-to-paycheck and in severe debt. I never shopped super-high-end retail (unless I had a gift card, for some reason), but I’m still in the mess I’m in. I gotta do what I gotta do to get by. Some of us can’t afford to be choosy.
My grandma always told me to go flush one of their toilets 5 times each visit to make up for the way they treat their employees lol. Unfortunately, we don’t have another choice to shop at around here. C’mon Target!!! Where are you, and when are you coming!?!?
We try to avoid shopping there, but it is difficult at times because of their prices are much lower. I read an article a few years ago on the Wal-mart family and was very disturbed by it… I don’t think just because they’re big that they’re bad, I just don’t like the way they do things. I love Costco, and think that they have learned the right way to do business.
I will never understand the people that boycott Wal-Mart because of their labor practices, buying overseas, etc., but happily frequent Target 2 or 3 times a week. News Flash: They do the exact same stuff.
It is easy to pick on Wal-Mart since they cater to a different demographic than the ones that most blogging types would consider themselves a part of. So they can jump on the bandwagon and be cool by boycotting Wal-Mart, because they would never shop there in the first place.
Target is the beneficiary of being the 2nd biggest dog in the retail fight. The unions, public health advocates, etc focus all of their attention on WM, while Target essentially gets a free ride. Here’s a good, if somewhat dated, article on what I’m talking about: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13508
I firmly believe that a lot of the Wal-Mart hate boils down to “I don’t like poor people”. And hey, that’s fine, but let’s call a spade a spade, shall we?
The catch-22 is described well and I understand both sides of the argument.
The folks who work at Wal*Mart in the low paying positions are in low paying positions for a reason. I regularly see applicants in my office (HR) applying for jobs with no diploma or GED, no ability to think logically or write a cohesive sentence, and bad people skills. If Wal*Mart didn’t exist, these people wouldn’t have jobs at all. My husband works for Wal*Mart in a distribution center and is paid excellently as a non-managerial, regular hourly employee with 5 years in the company. He has a college degree, can always be counted on to show up, plan and do his job well, etc. Wal*Mart pays well when it is earned.
Wal*Mart offers a veritable smorgasbord of health insurance options. Choose your deductible, choose your out-of-pocket maximum, etc., etc. Most people choose not to get any, even the cheapest “just in case you break your arm” kind, because it isn’t required by law and they would rather spend their money on cigarettes at $5 a pack or get their nails done (yes, Wal*Mart cashiers with perfectly manicured nails irritate me.)
With any large company, each location is the product of its senior-most employee. So, if your local store manager is a woman-hating bigot, the rest of the staff will be, too. It is impossible for corporate Wal*Mart to manage all of that. They provide training on appropriate behavior. Some follow it, some don’t and HR can’t be everywhere at once.
I worked for Target in college. They aren’t any better, just smaller, so they are easier to manage. Their products aren’t any better quality either and also made in sweat-houses overseas. They market better and get big names to design for them so that people who want to “keep up with the Joneses” can do it on a Wal*Mart budget and still get designer style. A better return on your branded investment, but the quality is the same.
I boycotted WalMart for 8 years and found the reality of my economic situation dictates that I have to now shop at WalMart. I did so for the first time last week.
To the poster who questioned justifying low prices – when I am struggling to pay my mortgage so that I can keep my two dogs, three cats, husband and I living with a roof over our heads, a yard to sleep in, lights on, water on, garbage picked up, and cars that run to get us to our jobs, yes – I don’t have a choice anymore. I imagine that families with children feel it more acutely. Those are called your “four walls” to some, I call them my priorities and they don’t leave a whole lot left over at the end of the month. So yeah, I have to suck it up and hate myself while I shop at WalMart. I’ve written those papers (If memory serves, WalMart gets sued the equivalent of every 2 minutes or so in this country – researched it, written it, preached it), I’ve told my friends, and I’ve railed against it. Doesn’t change where I am in my life right now.
To the poster who wrote that WalMart’s employees get what they wanted, well okay. But I’m still not buying it (no pun intended) – paying a livable wage and offering healthcare is something that plenty of smaller companies still manage to do in this economy. And the fact that WalMart practices some pretty shady business without any observable regard for the reputation of its name is arrogance at its worst.
This economy and the impact it has on people’s ability to have a choice when they shop ensures that WalMart thrives, like the proverbial cockroach. The best any of us can do is to spend locally when and where we can and live in our own reality the best we can. Even if that means shopping at Wally World until we can afford to go back to Target.
I suppose all of that makes me a hypocrite, but at least I’m an open-eyed hypocrite.
YES – go @suburbanroot!!! We were making the same argument at the same time. Well stated.
I have a hate/hate relationship with Wal Mart. Visually it is really overstimulating, they have some of the worst customer service in existance and the “clientele” tends to be pushy and aggressive (at least the store near me seems that way). Everytime I go there I feel like I need a Valium after.
I have not worked there but I have a close friend who’s parents are both VP’s at Wal Mart. We have talked extensively about the company and thier views on minorities and unions. I think it takes some pretty strong Kool Aid to buy some of the crapola that they pass off. It reeks of Bush administration propaganda and generally makes me want to move to Canada
So now I do not shop at Wal Mart, no matter what…. and I think I’m happier for it.
WalMart: uber-depressing, generally evil, dependably dirty and maddeningly convenient. I try to avoid shopping there, but I do wander inside occasionally in search of some random item on the cheap.
The worst thing about our local WalMart? Birds live inside the building. Seriously. It’s so sad to see them flying around in that flourescent hell.
Target? Meh. Their clothes fall apart. It’s a bit tidier, but I’m not super-impressed.
It’s really 6 of one, half a dozen the other with Wal-Mart.
Yes, the stores can get grimy, and the one in my town isnt well-stocked, and the customer service can be poor at times. However, they do seem to employ people that would otherwise not find jobs elsewhere (the greeter at my WMT can tell you first hand about WW1), you can buy everything you need in the same store (I recently decorated an apartment and bought groceries), and its CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP.
At WMT I can afford the foods that Whole Foods charges almost 3x as much for. (Also, in my town, you have to pay to park at WF…WMT will validate!) I spend less gas going from store-to-store-to store on the weekends.
I hate that I have to shop at Wal-Mart, but I’m glad its there.
The irony here people?
…is that you have to shop at WalMart because of WalMart.
I still remember when WalMart proudly claimed that it only sold items made in the USA. Then they changed and said they buy American when they can. Now they make no pretense to being China Supermarket.
When a country doesn’t produce anything it can’t survive. We gave up our manufacturing. Now our knowledge/skilled services industries are being gutted through offshoring and H1-B visa abuse. Reaching middle-class requires you to mortgage your life to bank in the form of student loans to get a degree that may or may not get you a good paying job. All that’s left are McJobs.
You say well, Americans are inventive and will come up with new industries. OK fine. Then big corporates will take it out of the hands of Americans like they did with manufacturing and IT.
One thing we are clearly overlooking: Wal-Mart apparently provides a guilt free spanking zone. I have never seen kids publicly spanked anywhere else, and the frequency that I see it at multiple locations amazes me.
I think the catch-22 will work itself out as the next generation is being conditioned to fear Wal-Mart as the House of Spanks. I’ve actually heard a parent tell a misbehaving child “If you don’t act right I’m going to take your @ss to Wal-Mart.”
David T. — while Walmart is certainly a guilty party, don’t you think it is unfair to lay the entire blame of the loss of our manufacturing economy at their feet?
I’ll say it again: if you are anti-Walmart because of their off-shore buying, their labor practices, or whatever else, do you similarly abhor other companies for the same issues? If so, great, but where is the outrage? I know that it sounds like I am making a strawman argument, but I’m not saying that the manner in which Walmart operates is necessarily right, I am wondering why Walmart shares such an unfair (to me, anyway) part of the blame, while similar companies get a totally free pass.
I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart when I overheard–with my own two ears–one of the Walton sons (rhymes with Snob!) sneeringly describe Wal-Mart as, “Cheap crap!!! For poor people!!! By the truckload!!!”
I’d rather not line the pockets of nouveau riche hillbillies who so openly ridicule their customers.
Not to mention their stores are filthy and depressing.
Walgreens has $4 prescriptions too. And my local Frye’s (supermarket) beats their prices on both cat food and litter. I can almost always beat a Wal-Mart price if I’m willing to put a little effort into it. The only item on which I haven’t been able to is baby clothes. I can’t even play the “Well, it costs more, but it’s better quality/lasts longer!” card on that, since babies grow out of everything so quickly it really that quality doesn’t really factor in.
Having said that, I did have to shop Wal-Mart from time to time when I lived in the mountains way outside Albuquerque, simply because it was the only store with 45 minutes. When they shut down those icy mountain passes along I-40, options shrink to one.
I’ve decided to never again live anyplace so remote that that is fact. I like having choices.
But I have no love for them. It’s definitely hate/hate. And I think it’s well-deserved.
(The incident occurred at a bar-b-q, and the remark was intended for one particular acquaintance of his. If he had realized I was behind him, close enough to overhear, I’m sure he would have been more discreet. Always nice to know what people *really* think, though, ain’t it?)
This is sort of off topic, but thats just how I roll! ha
…okay, so the brand new walmart near me was the only retail building to close due to methane gas leaking from the ground (I think they built on top or near an old landfill). They valued their employees and customers that much- a huge LO$$ I am sure. They let the 170+ employees transfer to a Walmart of their choice. I thought that said a lot about them as an organization- in a positive way for a change.
Click on my name to see the news article…
Elise — that’s hilarious. I used to work on the Walmart account in Bentonville (not for Walmart, biiiiig difference), and we always had to be very careful about what we were saying, because a WM person was very likely to be lurking around the corner no matter where we were at, day or night. Seems someone there made a mistake that their vendors have learned the hard way to not make.
I am definately in a hate/but have to shop there catagory. We live way in the sticks and if it wasn’t for walmart i’d be driving 45 minutes for dog food and toliet paper. So, should I boycott and hurt the environment with carbon emmissions by driving more? One thing at a time I say.
I wish that I had access to the online grocery store where they would deliver everything to my house. I would probably spend less due to no kids and ability to peruse without constantly watching my pocketbook sitting in the cart. It would make Wal-Mart obsolete.
As a side note, our little one-stoplight town has just opened a Dollar General- Talk about cheap and chinese made!!
@suburbanrobot: Wal-Mart is but part of the problem. There is no outrage (yet) because American society has bought into the whole idea of a “service economy” and have maintained their lifestyles through debt. I am afraid it is all coming to an end soon…
Walmart wields a great deal of power and influence over their suppliers. I’m optimistic that Walmart will use that influence in a positive way, encouraging manufacturers all over the world to adopt more humane and sustainable business practices. That might sounds naive, but like them or not, good or bad, they have the potential to make a really big difference in the world.
Thanks for the post, Laurie, your blog is great.
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other about Wal-Mart, but the documentary you are referring to was so bad as to be completely irrelevant to my thoughts on the matter.
To pick 2 examples:
The filmmakers repeatedly used statistics with no basis for comparison, relying instead on the response of, “Wow, that is a big number” and the fact that without context said figures are meaningless.
Second, it relied too much on anecdotal evidence from a handful of people. Given the sheer size and reach of Wal-Mart you could literally find 2 hours of footage to support any position imaginable.
There is even a whole subsection discussing the property crime, assaults, and the like that happen in Walmart parking lots. As if the store itself were responsible for these instances. Show me the only 24 hour establishment in a town, and I will show you the most likely place for your car to get broken into at 3am. Talk about blaming the victim (in this case, Walmart), it is seriously mindboggling.
Want a documentary about Wal-Mart’s pro-neonazi agenda? No problem. Bias against Lithuanian immigrants? No problem. The data set is so huge that you could make the anecdotal claim for just about anything. Consequently, this documentary ultimately proves nothing.
The film employs the dubious documentary tactics reminiscent of Michael Moore, and adds, in my opinion, nothing to what could otherwise be a valid debate about the responsibilities of large corporations to their stakeholders.
For anyone interested, there is additionally a pro-Walmart documentary available, albeit funded by Walmart themselves. I have not seen it, nor am I advocating. However, it could potentially provide at least a basic counterpoint to this ridiculously biased abortion of a documentary.
New national past time: Hating Wal-Mart. Everyone hates Wal-Mart. They buy from overseas sweat shops. They don’t pay their employees enough. They are ruining small town America. They wear funny smocks.
Another new national past time: Shopping at Wal-Mart. Everyone shops at Wal-Mart. Everyone. Good prices, lots of stores conveniently located, good selection. How dare they, the bastards. I mean were do they get off, giving people what they want? How long do they expect to stay in business with policies that? It’s just a fad I tell you, like color TV and the internet.
Wal-Mart bashing is as hypocritical as the Hollywood stars flying their personal jets to rallies to protest pollution levels. Everyone needs to change to save the planet (or insert other clause here _____), except for me of course.
I have to agree with RWTX, there will always be something or someone to complain about, and Wal-Mart seems to be the flavor of the month. There are too many people who will continue to shop there no matter if they agree or disagree with the policies.
As hard as it seems in our economy, most of us still have clean drinking water, food and a place to sleep at night. Some notable facts . . .
– 1.3 billion people living today on less than a dollar a day.
- Half the world’s population lives on two dollars a day,
and 800 million people are malnourished in developing countries.
- 1.3 billion people who have no clean water.
- Two billion people have no sanitation.
- Two billion have no electricity.
- Almost 1.5 billion people have dangerous outdoor air pollution,
and probably 2 to 2.5 billion are exposed to dangerous indoor air pollution or vector (insect)-borne diseases.
Many live in areas of civil strife and are vulnerable to natural disasters.
Wal-mart donates to these causes — so when you shop their, you too are contributing to help the poor and desolate. (http://walmartstores.com/CommunityGiving/203.aspx)
And even though they may not pay the most to their employees — they are providing jobs and some type of income to these families who may not have a job otherwise — thus limiting the number of families we support through food stamps and unemployment.
Wal Mart and everything it stands for is as American as apple pie – which makes me weep for my country.
I don’t have to vote with my conscience because the Wal-Mart by my house is such a shopping atrocity, I won’t go there.
I resent the dirtiness.
I resent the TVs from the ceiling blaring at me.
I resent the teeny tiny aisles.
It’s just awful.
@suburbanrobot You didn’t address me in particular, but I don’t give other companies a free pass, either. I don’t shop at Target, or at Costco, or Kmart, either. I live in a small town, and although it’s just a 20-minute (or so) drive to a larger city with all of those stores, and more, I prefer to spend my money in my community, and support my neighbors. I buy my groceries at one of the two locally owned grocery stores; I shop at both, because they have different selections and because I want to support both stores. I get my prescriptions filled at the small, locally owned drugstore in my town. When I need things like bug spray, garden implements, or nails, I go to a local hardware store. I buy gas in town, even though it’s often a cent or two cheaper in NearbyCity. I bought my iPod at the Ben Franklin “variety store” (what I grew up calling a dime store, although I haven’t heard anyone but my mom use that term in ages). Sometimes, when I can’t find something in one of these small town stores, I go to the recently opened Bi-Mart in our town, which has its share of made-in-China crap, but is employee owned and operated, so I’m still able to keep my money in my community and help my neighbors hold down a job.
I’m certainly not claiming moral perfection, but I do my best to live by my values.
I too have a love hate. I shop elsewhere for quality, but I can’t see myself paying more for the same stuff somewhere else. Someday I will be able to put my money where my mouth is, but for now… Walmart is a rational choice.
Ultimately, they give people what they want: Cheap stuff all in the same place. They are just better at it than others. It is tough to hate them for being too good at what they do.
Elle, that’s awesome, and congratulations for going the extra mile to do what you believe in, instead of just jumping on a bandwagon. It’s not easy to do (and I am far, far from perfect), so much respect for what you do and believe.
I haven’t seen the movie and I make it a point to avoid going to WalMart (as I sit here in my WalMart purchased pajamas).
Low prices, low quality, and nonexistent customer service.
But, no matter where else I turn, it is a struggle to find quality American manufactured goods. Even my favorite higher end outfitter is supplied by a steady stream of cargo from the third world. Even then, the quality isn’t what it should be.
I have no answer, only a wish for quality of value.
I believe @suburbanrobot has hit the nail on the head. When I truly think about why I don’t like shopping at Wal-Mart, is it because I don’t like low prices? No. Is it because I don’t like being around the clientele who shop there? Yes. Does that make me an elitist jerk? Probably. And so are all the people who claim they hate Wal-mart because they buy Chinese-made products. I work for a high-end retailer, and guess what. We sell Chinese crap too.
One thing I’ve never understood about the argument against Wal-mart is why people get so upset that they don’t pay their employees as much as people think they should. Ummm… the employees are the ones choosing to work there! No one is forcing them. If they feel the conditions are so terrible, they are perfectly free to quit and find employment elsewhere.
@Class You know, I went to my first Wal-Mart in 1993. I remember a huge banner that said AMERICA FIRST or something like that. What the hell happened to that motto?
@MikeVDT Yup, that’s the movie and it is part of a broader pattern of activist films. I missed it when it came out — but it’s worth seeing for those who haven’t seen it.
@Elle Companies have us by the short hairs, don’t they? When we can’t afford to shop in our own economic interests, we are fucked.
@Amy I agree that Wal-Mart has corrected some of the issues. Their anti-union and anti-healthcare and anti-Obama positions are still vibrant, though. I believe in capitalism. I like money. I just like ethics. It’s really a conundrum.
@Ginny I feel bad when I go to Wal-Mart, too, but I used to drive over and pick up bags of cat litter, cat food, and dog food from the local Wal-Mart in Kalamazoo. They donated ripped (or dinged) bags, and it made all the difference to the bottom line at our rescue. Ugh.
@John If every job doesn’t offer benefits or a decent wage, why work? How do we expand the middle class? How do we keep moving forward as a society? I know what you mean about the cost of investment in our middle class, but what’s the cost of NOT offering decent wages and benefits? Can we afford stagnation?
@Rebecca LAUNCH ALREADY. I’m waiting!! We’ll write about it here.
@JD I know WMT has been good to many people; however, I think it’s a generational thing. When I worked at Alberto-Culver, we managed our inventory for WMT. I had to hire customer service and logistics specialists who had experience in this specific kind of inventory management, and the IT systems that supported WMT were amazing and innovative. Now imagine if we took some of that innovation and applied it to the way we treat and manage WMT employees. I bet the experience would be totally different.
@Misty I know, I know. WMT have Kalamazoo Animal Rescue food by Purina, and I think it’s a good brand of food for most cats & dogs. We didn’t turn it down. If you’re willing to foster cats & dogs, it’s tough to tell you that you can only feed your animals gourmet food from expensive stores.
@Mandy I think about some people in my family who have cats. If they paid $16/bag for litter (like I do), they would rescue fewer cats. So it’s a weird situation. Cheap litter & food = more saved animals. Cheap litter & food = more poor people in the world. Ugh!
@Tom I’m a big fan of coupons!
@Meredith Elaine I know, I know. I actually went to Wal-Mart before I wrote this post to see how it would make me feel. I bought a ginormous bottle of RoundUp (because I’m too lazy to pull weeds) for $9.00. It wasn’t the worst thing in the world to shop at Wal-Mart, but I still walked out feeling weird — like I just betrayed my best friend or something.
@Mary Your grandmother was a good soul. I don’t pee in public toilets — especially WMT. Gross.
@JLEa I love how Costco pays its employees a living wage. That’s important to me.
@SuburbanRobot I was waiting for someone to take on this issue. The difference btwn WMT and Target is one of branding and socio-economic issues. Snobby people = Target shoppers. The stores are a little cleaner and brighter, but Target has huge staffing issues and a damaged employer brand at the local level.
@Amy2 Thanks for that description. I think WMT must do something right because there are so many loyal employees. I just wonder if those employees are white, male, and show a higher level of social intelligence — i.e., they can navigate through a situation and pick up on savvy social cues that make it easier to assimilate into the culture? I know what you mean about low-paying jobs. I hired people to work in a candy factory for $6/hr. They still deserved respect and decent working conditions. WMT doesn’t always deliver on those values.
@Jackbuilt Wow, that’s a compelling post. You exemplify exactly what I’m trying to say: sometimes a choice isn’t a choice. Thanks for sharing.
@PunkRockRecruiter WMT is very visually stimulating. I agree. I go in there and I feel like my brain is short circuiting!
@AiryMary Two things: birds do live in WMT, Home Depot, and Lowes. It’s so weird. I’ve seen birds in the NWA Terminal at Detroit, too. Kind of sad. Also, Target’s clothes DO fall apart and never flatter my body. I like Target’s sports bras, though.
@Erika I know what you mean about the greeter. It’s too bad our society makes that guy go back to work after retirement. Also, Whole Foods can suck it. I feel dirty when I go in there, too. Yuppie dirty.
@David T. Gosh, you’re more cynical than I am.
@Puf You are killing me, and you’re so right. WMT is full of spankers and screaming children.
@Elise Holy crap. What a comment. I knew it. That Walton family (the kids, at least) are evil. They’re also cheap and don’t donate to charity.
@KFP That is weird. I’m not sure how I feel about that.
@Teresa OMG, I’ve never been to a Dollar General. There is one in my mother’s town (in the boondocks) but I haven’t been inside. There is nothing I possibly need in that store.
@Kip The best way they can impact the world is to hire smart, talented people with good values who can steer that company in the right direction!
@Sam Thanks for the compliments and the comments. I agree that the documentary was more than biased. My husband and I watched it and we — entitled yuppies — felt like it was a piece of propaganda. “I get it,” I told my husband. “Wal-Mart is bad.” Nevertheless, I think it’s an important film because it counteracts the constant barrage of WMT commercials on TV. I’m glad I watched it.
@RWTX I just laughed out loud. I’m a total hypocrite. I drove to Starbucks 2x, today. I wonder how big my carbon footprint is? Now let me criticize corporate america for not caring enough about environmental standards.
@Food You just made me depressed with those statistics. It feels like there’s nothing we can do. Pass the bowl of ice cream so I can numb myself into a food coma.
@Jenn The good news? There’s pie involved.
@Andy My grocery store has tiny aisles, too, and I’m only five feet tall. Who shops there? Dwarves? So weird.
@George How is your job search going? You were laid off last week, right? Maybe we can get WMT to sponsor your blog!
@RMS I know, I know, I know. Everything I own is made in China or Bangladesh. I went to Old Navy and my jeans were made in Guatamala. There’s no escaping cheap consumer goods & mediocrity.
@melc I agree with you that everyone sells imported Chinese shit. The textile industry in America no longer exists. We don’t make clothes. North Carolina? Decimated. I will say this much — sometimes an employment choice isn’t a choice, but rather, a concession to your current situation. I applaud people for working and don’t begrudge anyone who keeps a job for financial reasons. You’re right that no one is stuck and everyone can quit; however, some people can quit faster than others. I’m reminded of this when I tell people to quit if they work in a hostile work environment. Sure, they can quit, but where would they go? I forget that some parts of America don’t offer the same employment opportunities as a big city like Chicago or NYC or even Raleigh.
Man, that’s an impressive reply Laurie!
One point of clarification — I don’t think that people who shop at Target are necessarily snobby. I shop at Target. I don’t enjoy shopping at Walmart at all (I don’t like screaming babies, horribly obese people loading their carts with Hungry Man frozen meals, terrible merchandising, etc etc etc).
THAT SAID, to me there is a difference between not shopping at Walmart because you don’t like the atmosphere, and not shopping there because of some phony crusade about unions, living wages, American made goods, and health insurance. It just gets me when people watch some kind of hackjob documentary and then claim to “boycott” Walmart, or comment that they feel “dirty” shopping there, or claim that Walmart is everything that is wrong with America, and then 15 minutes later step foot into a Target, or a Home Depot, or a Lowe’s, or Macy’s, or any number of other retailers that have the exact same policies. That’s all.
“congratulations for going the extra mile to do what you believe in”
Except Elle isn’t going the extra mile. Elle, would you drive 20 minutes NOT to shop at Walmart?
I had to write a paper about how Walmart is a terrible company in college…..yes—my teacher chose what side I was on….wtf???
The Walmart subject is like abortion….the never ending argument. Seriously.
I’ve read many good responses and continued to be impressed by the level of conversations on this blog. Bravo!
My own experiences with Walmart make me say “no thanks”. I worked for a large clothing mfg that did business with Walmart and they not only called all the shots but we basically ran the bulk of our business for them at the exclusion of other good customers that paid on time and were not assholes to deal with.
My other experience comes a good friend that refused to shop at Walmart for many principled reasons. At first I thought she was being silly as what difference did it make but then came to see that we all have a voice and can use it to make our own statment no matter how small it may appear to be.
Therefore, I no longer shop at WalMart (and thankfully I don’t have too as I have many other choices) and it does bother me that when I shop at other stores (Target included which I just did last night) that the things I buy at a decent price are all from outside the USA and perhaps their labor practices are not up to snuff either.
It’s true they have us by the cajones but I’m a big believer in karma and know that good will always prevail over the evil sons of bitches!
Have never worked for Wal-Mart, but have known a lot of people who have. Without exception, they loved that company. Now, I’ll admit it’s a limited sampling, but it’s a company that provides not only goods, but employment, in a lot of areas that don’t have much else. Yes, they also create some unemployment when they move into those areas, but the folks I have known always felt better served.
They also have always said that the real issue is that the unions want so badly to crack into the nation’s largest private sector employer that they aren’t above not only making stuff up, but inserting folks into the firm to create the situations they are accused of. Of course, I’ve heard the other side as well – guess I just don’t know as many people predisposed in that direction.
It’s a big company filled with human beings – my sense is that big groups of human beings always have troublemakers and miscreants among them. The trick is to figure out if they are the exception or the rule.
these, by the way, are my thoughts, and not those of my employer…do I need to say that?
@Suburban Thanks, I really try to answer almost all comments. I’m snobby & that’s why I shop at Target.
I do get your broader point, though.
@InkedHR I never saw a connection between abortion and Wal-Mart until right now. Wow, that’s an interesting connection. Like so many social issues, people pick a side and don’t change their minds easily. No one is trying to outlaw or demonize WMT in the same way they’ve attacked abortion, though.
@HRJ I’m glad you are here. Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I wish I believed in karma. I’m too much of a cynic.
@Nevin Nope, you don’t need to say that. We get it.
Holly freaking hot topic.
ps…
I noticed that you had a boatload of comments and immediately thought “hmm.. let’s see her reply to each of them” (your MO) and you did. I’m impressed.
Just so we are clear, wal-mart and sam’s club are the same?
@Amanda Well I’m not sure it’s my MO but I really do appreciate comments and I’m trying to be thoughtful. I usually fail in my real life. At least I can be thoughtful on my blog!
@Jesse Sams Club & Wal-Mart are the same, yes.
@suburbanrobot – From where I sit, WalMart gets the disproportionate share of the blame because they receive the disproportionate share of business. Perhaps Target and Kmart and all the other ‘marts and big boxes don’t get picked on as much but I agree that they participate in the same bad practices, just not on the same scale as WalMart. I have no problem calling a spade a spade, but through my filter I see no spade. I truly don’t care what the demographic is that shops at WalMart, because whether we shop at WalMart, Target, Home Depot, or Lowe’s, we are all part of the same demographic. The big box demographic.
To me, the real issue is that all of those big boxes make it cost prohibitive to spend money locally; shallow or not, I can shop locally and buy a few of the things I need or I can shop WalMart/Target/Kmart/AnyBigBoxStore, and stretch my dollar. Right now, that is my priority and the necessity of my financial reality (what the Flight Of The Conchords calls my Transactional Shit). The choice about where to spend money then becomes one of choosing the lesser evil. Moreover, the argument that those of us that don’t like WalMart because “you don’t like poor people” has been heard as many times as you have heard all of the reasons people don’t shop at WalMart that you cited. I am sure there is truth to each argument – for some sick societal reason it “means” something to be able to upgrade where we shop just as it “means” something to not shop at the big box of your choice for any of the multiple choice reasons given for as long as we can afford it.
As I read over this thread, and my own reply, I have to wonder if the real issue is why we make it so hard for American entrepreneurship to thrive by setting up a system that makes survival for local retailers, suppliers, and distributors almost impossible. Why do we talk and fight each other about the symptom – WalMart and other big box stores – and not the root cause:a system that almost ensures that the small business gets swallowed by those entities?
For the record, both arguments have merit, but given the facts, I don’t know that either dialog is the one we should be having.
Jackbuilt
Laurie, you’re a role model for building community. Part of your awesomeness…
jackbuilt,
target, kohl’s, & kmart are not as big, as wealthy or as ruthlessly vicious as walmart in their pursuits. target is very supportive of education, & none of the above has the anti-insurance, anti-union tactics of ‘walballs’ (my favorite slam name for my least favorite place to shop). i am a teacher in west virginia. as you might guess, my pay sux. i still would rather, and do, pay top dollar elsewhere than go to the place where it seemz ALL my colleagues, friends, neighbors, acquaintences….AHHH! go for EVERYTHING.
@Laurie – I take issue with the white, male who can pick up on social cues to assimilate into the culture. My husband is in no way a “yes man” and rocks the boat regularly. He also treats everyone with whom he works with respect. And don’t get me wrong. I hate everything about Wal*Mart that everyone else hates. I don’t even shop at my local store because it is managed so poorly, but drive 24 miles up the interstate (yes, I drive for better service and a clean environment with A/C that actually works) in order to shop at a better store. And I shop at Wal*Mart and everywhere else.
@ Sam Higgins – Thank you for your comment. You encapsulate all of the problems with Wal*Mart-bashing documentaries. Like any data, or the bible, or any other source of information, word and numbers can be adjusted to fit any argument. The same goes for medical research, editorial opinion and any other writing, blog, etc. Give me fiction any day. There is usually more truth there!
I worked there for 6 months to supplement my income. There’s a reason we all called it “Retail-Hell”.
@Lynn I never heard that one. Appropriate!
@Amy2 Oh no, don’t take issue with it. I read something about social cues and status in Outliers a few weeks ago and it must’ve been on my mind. Your husband is savvy.
@Pamela Oh my sympathies. You are in Wal-Mart country!
@Amanda xxxooo
@Jackbuilt America is in the habit of making the easy choice and not considering long-term implications. It’s sad.
I’m a boycotter, with a phony crusade if you will
yet somehow I actually manage to not shop there and explain to my child why – and I even encourage her questions and healthy discussion so that I’m not just shoving my agenda down her throat. However, that being said – I don’t shove it down anyone else’s throat either and usually keep my opinion to myself and it’s only when people find out and press and ask questions do I touch on any of my phony crusade points 
However Laurie – since you asked.
I will say this: my opinions are educated, fact and experience based, and not decisions I came to lightly just because I wanted to jump on the band-wagon. I didn’t take someone else’s opinion and regurgitate it into my own. I’ve lived it and I’ve researched it and I’ve even tried to find the good in this company… and I finally decided that I AM simply fortunate enough to not have to shop there, so I don’t. and I don’t have to validate that to anyone but myself, knowing they probably don’t miss me much anyway, but I can feel good knowing I’m not supporting a company who I personally feel does more harm than good in the grand scheme of things…
That being said…
@Kip – Um, dude… kinda cute and funny even… but sustainable business practice is like the epitome of what WMT does NOT encourage with it’s suppliers… just look up Vlasic and ask how well they did with giant pickle jars that WMT demanded, then later realized no family on earth (not even Jon & Kate) could consume that many pickles only AFTER Vlasic changed their biz model and production lines… and then keep reading for many other companies who’ve gone the way of the dodo bird thanks to WMT and their “efficient” business practices.
@Amy 2: I agree with you that S#@t runs downhill, but I disagree with the notion that WMT is so big their bigoted little dictators – I mean, managers – can’t be controlled. My organization is um, almost as big as WMT, I’m in corporate HR and we are heavy retail (but have pretty kick-a$$ benefits and pay decent wages… shocking, I know!), but every Store Manger is held accountable (and we may actually have as many or more stores than WMT). WMT isn’t too big, but their stores are too big to not have a true HR presence and this is one area where WMT screwed up and simply didn’t get it right – and has been trying to correct over the past few years with the phased implementation of regional HR Managers… too little, too late, unfortunately.
@mel C – To claim that people choose to work there? You know not of which you speak. Until you live in rural midwest towns and the like – in which you are an hour or more away from a large city that affords you an opportunity to work (and/or shop) somewhere that pays a decent wage, then your argument will have some merit. To Laurie’s point, you’re right – they can quit, but where would they go? The local hardware store? Oh wait… not there anymore… so what next, we tell them to move? That which makes up so much of rural culture is that generations of people live in these towns their entire lives, many are legacies of farmers who USED to provide to the local grocers, but wait… oh crap… here we go again.. Dammit, Wal-Mart even screwed with our farmers!
@suburbanrobot – sorry, but I’m gonna have to call it.
You take one article, in which union reps (hello, Wal-Mart in gangsta clothes) are interviewed and provide their perspective because they are pissed they can’t get in there either? LOL! Many a (peer-reviewed, not pro-union reviewed news) case study has been done on both the positives and negatives of Wal-Mart – some are proponents of the positive effects that WM has had on the gross domestic product and economy in general, while others discuss the variety of things that are wrong with WMT – to include the annilihation of small towns….
There is definitely good and bad that comes with WMT, but what Target and others did NOT do was start and operate their company in the red, intentionally in small towns, utilizing a 6 point pricing scale to incrementally increase prices as they run particular competitors out of business.
Good ole Sam intentionally set up shop in small towns with the intent of running the tire shop, the hardware stores, the grocery stores, the pharmacies all out of business… and then with a bit of marketing spin – claimed he brought jobs to the community while hard working small business owners go under because he could afford to operate a loss…
Nope, Target didn’t do that and no one else did either. And yes, I CAN and I DO choose to shop at other retail establishments for American convenience, knowing full well that *some* will employ *some* similar business practices to the almighty WMT, because WMT has definitely established a way to Get S#@t Done. It is what it is, but I have stood firmly behind my reasons and I do not set foot in that store.
My “phony crusade” is something I take very seriously as an example of my daughter, that as an American, I do still have the freedom of choice and to stand by and follow through on my decisions. I have several yrs of corporate biz exp and an MBA along with a solid, healthy respect for how business is done – and certainly understand the not so pretty side of business… but I also have an understanding for creating a business case and realizing there is also a time and a place for standing your ground for principles sake (and not).
My “phony crusade” is something I stand by so much so, that my daughter used to point out WMT when we would pass it and say “There’s that store you don’t like Mom” and then when people give her a WMT gift card, she just sighs, and says she’ll just have to give it away or use it when grandma takes her shopping in the small town they live in (where there is no where else to shop).
@Foodforthought: Something positive @suburbanrobot’s article points out though (even tho they still manage to spin it negatively) is how much more Target does for charity than WMT, but yet, you don’t hear them bragging like WMT does and WMT doesn’t hold a candle. WMT undoubtably does enough to get their tax write-offs every year with their 7/100th of a percent donations – oh and let’s not forget how they badger their customers (who can’t really afford it since they are so poor right?) to help with their charitable “Charitable Children’s Miracle Network” etc… for more Press for WMT…
One more thing… many people at WMT still don’t make enough to be considered “above poverty level” thus, not necessarily making enough to keep us from still having to support their food stamps. Although I totally agree that some of these people may not have jobs otherwise, had WMT stayed out of their towns, they may have had opportunities for better jobs.
This is not *just* my opinion either, I’ve watched my hometown business owners battle WMT for years, keep the Super Center out, it went to another SMALLER town, which was already a heavily subsidized tribal town, and once my town finally lost the battle – the Super Center packed up, left another empty building next to all of the other buildings they’d run out of business and moved right back into my town and killed the 3 grocers business who’d fought them for years. All of this is in the last few years (for those who want to argue WMT doesn’t operate that way anymore – they do)
Ethics and “morals” may be a grey area for some people, but I have done my part to avoid Wal-Mart for over 10 years – despite the fact that I have direct family – in rural small towns -who work there, but only after they ran the other companies (TG&Y, local grocers) out of business.
I’m just sayin’
@thealphafemme – I’d be curious to know what large retailer you work for. I also work with a large retailer in their corporate HR department. If you don’t mind sharing, drop me a line at michael.vandervort@gmail.com or to @MikeVanDervort on twitter!
Great topic as usual, Laurie!
I read this article in Fast Company over the weekend (http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/137/the-scarlet-woman-of-bentonville.html), so when I saw this post I thought you’d find it interesting. Not exactly related, but interesting insight into their capital city…ahem…I mean the town where their corporate HQ is located.
Great discussion here! I try to stay away from Wal-Mart, and their deals aren’t so good they’ve been able to suck me back in. So far so good.